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Titan14 
"Up your nose..."

United States

Posted - 08/03/2012 :  12:42:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Please Kill Me Now

quote:
Originally posted by TitanPA

Sorry for my next comment. My snarkyness is usually reserved for someone else on this site. You sound like a bratty child who just discovered a new food (like broccoli). You hate it but will not try it. You wont even eat a small bite to see if you like it. Its odd to you and you wont just have it.

Please just suck it up and try and at least use it...





You should be sorry for that comment. And what makes you think I haven't tried the new site? I have and I don't like it. Is that so difficult for you to process?



Yet you have nothing constructive to offer Benj.
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benj clews 
"...."

United Kingdom

Posted - 08/03/2012 :  15:00:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wildheartlivie

While it may take a little getting used to, I'm learning. The one thing I can't figure out is how to report a review. You know, for spelling errors, or incorrect ones. Pointers would be helpful.



Apologies- I don't think I replied to this yet.

There's currently no report review button. I'll be adding it in due course but am prioritising the more core functionality at the moment. Until then I'm afraid you'll have to do it the old-fashioned way over on fwxr.com
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Please Kill Me Now 
"Need my dopamine fix!"

Canada

Posted - 08/03/2012 :  19:25:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TitanPA

Yet you have nothing constructive to offer Benj.



Not true at all. My suggestion is to revert back to the old site, which was fine the way it was.
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Titan14 
"Up your nose..."

United States

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  12:18:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Please Kill Me Now

quote:
Originally posted by TitanPA

Yet you have nothing constructive to offer Benj.



Not true at all. My suggestion is to revert back to the old site, which was fine the way it was.



You are just talking in circles. Why is the old site better than the new site???? And don't say because it's not the new site!
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Please Kill Me Now 
"Need my dopamine fix!"

Canada

Posted - 09/03/2012 :  17:58:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TitanPA
You are just talking in circles. Why is the old site better than the new site???? And don't say because it's not the new site!



And you are just being an annoying pest. Buzz off!


Edited by - Please Kill Me Now on 10/03/2012 03:25:38
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Rovark 
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"

UK

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  20:19:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ok, my turn.

I don't like the new site.

The first reason is that i'm old and i'm against any change as a matter of principle. I was against electronic typewriters when they replaced manual ones. Come to think of it, I wasn't actually that impressed with typewriters. I was the only person to submit all my work for my post-grad diploma in ink. That I wrote with a pen. Back in the early 1990's.

This is the first time I've logged in since the change over. I took one look at it on the day of the change and promptly fled.
Still, I'm an addict so I'm back.

I'll have to play with it before I decide whether I really don't like it or if I'm just channelling my inner Victor Meldrew here and objecting to change just for the sake of it. I'll let you know any specifics.

As a very first impression, I find it difficult to navigate just because it's all new. With the old site, I knew exactly where everything that I liked was, and the easiset way to do what I wanted to do.
As a potential newcomer to the site I think I would be much more impressed with the more professional look as compared to the old one. It's bright, punchy, welcoming, looks like fun with lots of things to investigate

My best comparison would be with Word
The latest version of Word looks great, big buttons, clear headings with everything grouped together according to category, designed to enable you to find produce the document you want.
But I like the old XP version of Word I have. Doesn't look so good, but i'm so used to the functionality of it with the dropdowns and I can achieve what I want so easily. Sometimes a little more long-winded, but I get exactly the result I want.


ok, I've started rambling so I'll stop here. A half bottle of Chardonnay with my Sausage, Mash & Onion gravy probably wasn't the smartest move.

Off to hit things in World of Warcraft for 45 mins before NCIS is on.

Take it easy guys (& gals)

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Koli 
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."

United Kingdom

Posted - 11/04/2012 :  05:01:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it must be my turn.

The new site looks very good and I agree that the home page is now more likely to entice someone in to see more.

My gripe is that I've just tried to vote on a review (yes, I know, the first time since the change; I've been away playing with Flickr you see), and can't see how to do it. When I click on the film name it takes me to the film page (which could be very handy, I admit), but I still can't vote.

Is it coz I is using Safari on a Mac? (It sometimes is.) Or have I missed something? (I do that too.)
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."

New Zealand

Posted - 11/04/2012 :  06:16:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Koli

I think it must be my turn.

The new site looks very good and I agree that the home page is now more likely to entice someone in to see more.

My gripe is that I've just tried to vote on a review (yes, I know, the first time since the change; I've been away playing with Flickr you see), and can't see how to do it. When I click on the film name it takes me to the film page (which could be very handy, I admit), but I still can't vote.

Is it coz I is using Safari on a Mac? (It sometimes is.) Or have I missed something? (I do that too.)

Make sure you're logged in, if not you can't vote. If you are logged in then the vote tab is the greyed-out star on the top right of the review, it'll turn gold when you've voted.

For the most part, when you want to do things or go places, the greyed-out things on the top right of a review or page (or whatever) are where you go. Hover over those and a pop-up should tell you what it does.

Hope that helps.
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Koli 
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."

United Kingdom

Posted - 11/04/2012 :  21:07:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sean

quote:
Originally posted by Koli

I think it must be my turn.

The new site looks very good and I agree that the home page is now more likely to entice someone in to see more.

My gripe is that I've just tried to vote on a review (yes, I know, the first time since the change; I've been away playing with Flickr you see), and can't see how to do it. When I click on the film name it takes me to the film page (which could be very handy, I admit), but I still can't vote.

Is it coz I is using Safari on a Mac? (It sometimes is.) Or have I missed something? (I do that too.)

Make sure you're logged in, if not you can't vote. If you are logged in then the vote tab is the greyed-out star on the top right of the review, it'll turn gold when you've voted.

For the most part, when you want to do things or go places, the greyed-out things on the top right of a review or page (or whatever) are where you go. Hover over those and a pop-up should tell you what it does.

Hope that helps.


Oh yeah. It does. Thanks mate.
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boydegg 
"Creator of Grammarman comic."

Thailand

Posted - 16/04/2012 :  08:13:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Benj

Sorry to join the throng, but I also don't dig the changes.

The site looks fresher, snazzier, punchier ... but I also find it busy, crowded and confusing. A lot of features I liked before are either gone or moved to somewhere I can't find them.

For example ... on my 'my fwfr' page, I used to be able to glance to the left and see my ranking and the person above and below me ... so it was easy to see how many reviews I was ahead of the person chasing me and how many reviews I was behind the person ahead of me. Gone. Or hidden.

I also don't seem to be able to add an explanation to my review, to clarify things for the MERPS.

When I first saw the new site (quite a while ago) I was excited by the new look, but quickly put off by the confusion. I got that same feeling I often get from Yahoo, Facebook, YouTube ... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Make it look nicer - GREAT. But why change the functionality of something that already works so well?

I decided not to comment right away - hoping there were just some bugs to sort out.

Now nothing seems to be reverting or improving. I don't know what to do next. Leave FWFR? Keep waiting? I certainly don't enjoy using it as it is. I know there's a link to the old version still ... maybe I'll use that for the next few months then check back to see how this version is.

Sorry Benj - this wave of negative feedback must be crushing. I guess at least it tells you that your visitors are passionate and protective about one of their fave sites.

Boydegg



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benj clews 
"...."

United Kingdom

Posted - 16/04/2012 :  09:03:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by boydegg

The site looks fresher, snazzier, punchier ... but I also find it busy, crowded and confusing. A lot of features I liked before are either gone or moved to somewhere I can't find them.



Okay, firstly what bits are you finding busy or crowded?

quote:

For example ... on my 'my fwfr' page, I used to be able to glance to the left and see my ranking and the person above and below me ... so it was easy to see how many reviews I was ahead of the person chasing me and how many reviews I was behind the person ahead of me. Gone. Or hidden.



What about if I added a ranking list to myfwfr?

quote:

I also don't seem to be able to add an explanation to my review, to clarify things for the MERPS.



Edit the review and then click the two faded lines directly to the right (or top right of the review)- the background of the review will change to a yellow lined paper effect which indicates you're now editing the explanation. Click the faded review icon to the right to get back to editing the review.

quote:

I decided not to comment right away - hoping there were just some bugs to sort out.

Now nothing seems to be reverting or improving.



I can't fix or compromise or integrate or whatnot anything I don't know is causing problems. Of course nothing that bothers you is being sorted until you tell me what they are.

quote:

I don't know what to do next. Leave FWFR? Keep waiting? I certainly don't enjoy using it as it is. I know there's a link to the old version still ... maybe I'll use that for the next few months then check back to see how this version is.



I don't see the dilemma. If they made my favourite chocolate bar with white chocolate instead of dark chocolate but kept the old flavour, I'd just keep buying the old flavour.
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boydegg 
"Creator of Grammarman comic."

Thailand

Posted - 16/04/2012 :  10:15:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Benj

Thanks for responding so quickly!

On the old FWFR, on the 'my fwfr' page, I used to see my rank followed by the number of accepted reviews in brackets. Above me, the next FWFRer and their number of reviews. Below, the person chasing me and their number of reviews. Simple. At a glance. I'd like to see that return. It didn't even take up much space.

The cramped and busy-ness:

I do like a lot of the new graphics and icons and the overall attempt to give the site the look and feel of a cinema.

Some of the fonts have become notably larger. Why? I've no idea. I can read quite small text. There's really no need to make everything so big. It's an assault on the eyes - topped off by that glaring 'now showing' box which hits a visitor in the face upon arrival. Is it essential? Could it be moved somewhere less obtrusive? Surely the most striking things a visitor should see upon arrival are a 'what's this?' button for first-time-visitors and an easy to see 'my fwfr' button which takes regular visitors to their account page.

I feel that new FWFR should be fairly intuitive for me, since I'm familiar with old FWFR ... yet it isn't. I get lost, I get confused and I get frustrated. So I imagine it's even worse for a first time visitor.

The only thing LESS in your face seems to be the 'my fwfr' button which is almost invisible!! Why? The button linking to the IMDB page for each film is also less obvious.

Editing reviews ... I started to read this: "Edit the review and then click the two faded lines directly to the right (or top right of the review)- the background of the review will change to a yellow lined paper effect which indicates you're now editing the explanation. Click the faded review icon to the right to get back to editing the review."

... and stopped before I got to the end. How did something that was once so simple suddenly require so many instructions?

In fact - I've just tried to follow the instructions and can't get past the first one. Edit the review. How? How do I edit the review? I can't click on it. Above the review I see the word review next to a triangle. Clicking the triangle causes the triangle to invert. Clicking again causes it to flip back. Clicking on the word 'review' also causes the triangle graphic to toggle.

Other than that ... what do I do? This is the opposite of intuitive.

So as you advised ... I'll stick with the brand of chocolate I prefer. I'll keep using old fwfr and hopefully the new fwfr will be more user friendly and more friendly-looking later this year.

Benj - sorry for venting my frustration. I fully understand your aim is to make fwfr a positive and enjoyable experience for all visitors. Old FWFR did just that and did it well. It was fixed, so why break it?

Boydegg





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benj clews 
"...."

United Kingdom

Posted - 16/04/2012 :  12:19:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Some of the fonts have become notably larger. Why? I've no idea. I can read quite small text.



Because the old site is 7 years old and screen resolutions have almost doubled in this time. As a result, screens have become sharper but the things on it have gotten smaller. Take a look around the internet- everything is bigger.

quote:

There's really no need to make everything so big. It's an assault on the eyes - topped off by that glaring 'now showing' box which hits a visitor in the face upon arrival. Is it essential?



No, it's not essential but then it's the homepage. How much really is essential on a homepage? If a homepage was just what was essential, it'd be an explanation of the site and a login/ register box. It's also in keeping with the cinema-style look to the site which you earlier professed to like.

quote:

Surely the most striking things a visitor should see upon arrival are a 'what's this?' button for first-time-visitors and an easy to see 'my fwfr' button which takes regular visitors to their account page.



I've struggled over and over to come up with a What's this? box and after all this time I'm not even convinced it's neccessary. Heck, the site is called The Four Word Film Review. Looking just a little down the page, you'll see a bunch of very brief comments that seem to describe the film named beneath them. Just for extra clarification I put 'XXXX four word reviews' just below the number of films on the homepage. But really... how much explanation is required before it's actually patronising?

quote:

I feel that new FWFR should be fairly intuitive for me, since I'm familiar with old FWFR ... yet it isn't. I get lost, I get confused and I get frustrated. So I imagine it's even worse for a first time visitor.



As I explained in this or the other new site thread, there will be a quick introduction to using the site done once we're at a place where things have settled down. I realise everything's different but I don't just change things because I can- I change them because they can be done better. They were done the way they were before because I didn't know better or have the ability to simplify them.

quote:

The only thing LESS in your face seems to be the 'my fwfr' button which is almost invisible!! Why? The button linking to the IMDB page for each film is also less obvious.



Maybe the colours can be amped up a little, but this is what I'm talking about; I can't fix these things if I don't know they're causing you issues. It's no use complaining something is confusing or busy or crowded (something which you still haven't explained) if I don't know the specifics.

Does the IMDB button need to be highly obvious? I only ever saw it as an extra bit on information, not a key site feature. Let me know how often you're using this.

quote:

Editing reviews ... I started to read this: "Edit the review and then click the two faded lines directly to the right (or top right of the review)- the background of the review will change to a yellow lined paper effect which indicates you're now editing the explanation. Click the faded review icon to the right to get back to editing the review."

... and stopped before I got to the end. How did something that was once so simple suddenly require so many instructions?



Simple answer: icons. Anything purely visual doesn't lend itself well to written description. A quick diagram will explain it very nicely however and make it easy to remember. You only need to get the gist of what I mean once and you'll know how to do it every other time.

Also, I'd disagree it was so simple before; I've lost count of how many people have asked how to edit the explanation on their reviews in the past.

quote:

Edit the review. How? How do I edit the review? I can't click on it.



Click on the faded pencil icon to the right (or top right) of the review.

quote:

So as you advised ... I'll stick with the brand of chocolate I prefer. I'll keep using old fwfr and hopefully the new fwfr will be more user friendly and more friendly-looking later this year.



That's the plan. This is, and will continue to be, a work in progress, but I can only do this by hearing from you all what I'd doing right or wrong.

quote:

Benj - sorry for venting my frustration. I fully understand your aim is to make fwfr a positive and enjoyable experience for all visitors. Old FWFR did just that and did it well. It was fixed, so why break it?



Because it wasn't fixed. There's a lot wrong with the old site- a lot you don't see that I have to struggle to maintain on a daily basis because of the sprawling code and some you do but have gotten used to. I suspect this is down to diminishing expectations: "Yeah, there's a few odd quirks, it keeps logging me out and no two things really work the same way, but I'm used to it." I don't accept we should settle for second-best just because it's a familiar second-best.
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boydegg 
"Creator of Grammarman comic."

Thailand

Posted - 16/04/2012 :  14:07:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again, Benj

Thanks for taking the time to patiently address each of my points.

I'm delighted to discover that old FWFR is still alive and available. I don't HATE new FWFR, and I understand the need to change and improve. I also understand that anything so big must be a work in progress with multiple issues and gripes and tweaks etc etc.

For now I think I'll stick with old FWFR but continue to check in on new FWFR.

I sense a growing frustration from you regarding people saying 'this sucks' without explaining why.

So here's one 'why' from me ...

On 'my fwfr' on the old site, everything I wanted was right there at a glance. Case in point - my ranking and the rankings of the FWFRers directly ahead and behind me. I liked that.

Now I have to scroll down through a bunch of stuff that I never really bother with (new films, for your cons, flagged, messages etc). Could it be made so that the individual user can choose what is given priority on their FWFR page? I'd have: approved, voted, pending, declined ... isn't that the order they appear on the old FWFR?

To answer your other question - yes, the IMDB link is very useful to me and I use it often. Especially when reviewing a film I haven't seen or haven't seen in ages.

Bottom line, though - it's your site and you should do it all as you wish. My messages are meant in the spirit of constructive criticism rather than angry ranting.

Cheers again for your work and your patience. FWFR old/new is still one of my favourite sites / pastimes.

Boydegg

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benj clews 
"...."

United Kingdom

Posted - 16/04/2012 :  14:43:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by boydegg

On 'my fwfr' on the old site, everything I wanted was right there at a glance. Case in point - my ranking and the rankings of the FWFRers directly ahead and behind me. I liked that.

Now I have to scroll down through a bunch of stuff that I never really bother with (new films, for your cons, flagged, messages etc). Could it be made so that the individual user can choose what is given priority on their FWFR page? I'd have: approved, voted, pending, declined ... isn't that the order they appear on the old FWFR?



Okay, I can at least answer this one with some positive news. If you stay at to the top of the page when you first go into myfwfr, there's a faded pencil icon to the (you guessed it) right of the page title (My Lists). Click on this to go to a new screen where you can edit which lists you see and the order (drag them up or down) they appear.

quote:

To answer your other question - yes, the IMDB link is very useful to me and I use it often. Especially when reviewing a film I haven't seen or haven't seen in ages.



Noted- I'll see if there's anywhere more prominent I can fit it.
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