| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Koli |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 19:48:28
Yes, it's back. A thread on coffee.
Today I made a round trip of a couple of hundred miles (for those of you in big countries, imagine a 1,000 mile round trip) to visit a coffee-roasting house and be taken through the process from raw bean to finished article. It was organised by the West Midlands fine foods group, or rather their gourmet food club, Relish. About ten of us had a guided tour that included watching (and listening) while a batch of beans was roasted; it took about 13 minutes.
I really admire people who are passionate about their trade (or their art, music, tattoos - well maybe not tattoos), and the guy in charge, Peter James, is certainly passionate. He got us to taste about six different types of coffee - including some Ethiopian coffee that retails at �34 per kilo - and told us about them. Great afternoon.
They do mail order, so anyone interested in buying from them can take a look at their site: http://www.jamesgourmetcoffee.com/index.php
Peter gave us a bag each of two Ethiopian Yirgacheffe coffees, and when I've tasted them - this time with sugar and milk and in my favourite chair - I'll report back.  |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Koli |
Posted - 03/19/2008 : 19:50:39
quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
I notice my BLACK GOLD reviews have picked up half a dozen votes since this thread started...
Glad to have been of service. Bottoms up!
BTW, did I detect another shameless plug?  |
| Downtown |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 19:32:20
quote:
Originally posted by Koli
quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
Yeah man, that's like drinking single malt whisky on the rocks.
Plug:
www.oldbisbeeroasters.com
He's my cousin, and he'll give you as many free espresso shots as you want if you actually show up there (most of his business is mail order and wholesale). Seth makes some damn good coffee.
If we get to Arizona during what I hope will be a summer holiday in the USA this year I shall try to ensure we visit Bisbee.
I agree on the whisky point. In my youth I drank it with ginger ale but nowadays it has to be straight, with no ice. (Incidentally, adding a small amount of water is said to release the flavours, but I wouldn't want to risk drowning it.)
Bisbee is really cool, it's an old copper mining town near the Mexican border, about 30 minutes from Tombstone. It's built on the sides of a bowl carved out of the rock as they mined the ore and there are hundreds of tunnels right underneath. Some still describe it as a ghost town but today it's populated by artists.
What's said about water is true, I only drink whisky neat but I usually add just a couple drops of water which releases more of the bouquet. |
| Whippersnapper. |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 17:54:43
I notice my BLACK GOLD reviews have picked up half a dozen votes since this thread started... |
| Sean |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 10:29:14
quote:
Originally posted by Koli
I tried the Helen Nigus yesterday for the first time and can report that it's delicious. Purists will argue that, as I polluted it with milk and sugar, I can't possibly be a coffee lover anyway, but even after pollution it has great complexity and depth.
Well, I'm sure it made your milk and sugar taste a whole lot nicer!  |
| Koli |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 10:13:56
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Koli ...
have you already forgotten the wonderful Tea & Coffee Plant, which sells Ethiopian Yergacheffe for �14 a kilo?
And, they do an organic, fair-trade version called Ethiopia Sidamo - described as more flavoursome if slightly less robust -- for only �11 a kilo??!
And the more you order the more discounts you get?! And you can order online??!!! And the loverly coffee will be delivered to your door??!!!!!!! And - don't listen to the puristy purists - yes, you can FREEZE THE BEANS!!!
I highly recommend all their coffee to anyone in the UK, and I know that the guy who runs it, Ian, who roasts his own of course ... also personally sources his suppliers.
Oh, certainly not forgotten. I had one of their sample packs of three coffees for �8.00, and have no complaints. But that Helen Nigus... |
| Koli |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 10:08:06
quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
Yeah man, that's like drinking single malt whisky on the rocks.
Plug:
www.oldbisbeeroasters.com
He's my cousin, and he'll give you as many free espresso shots as you want if you actually show up there (most of his business is mail order and wholesale). Seth makes some damn good coffee.
If we get to Arizona during what I hope will be a summer holiday in the USA this year I shall try to ensure we visit Bisbee.
I agree on the whisky point. In my youth I drank it with ginger ale but nowadays it has to be straight, with no ice. (Incidentally, adding a small amount of water is said to release the flavours, but I wouldn't want to risk drowning it.) |
| Koli |
Posted - 03/16/2008 : 09:59:14
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Koli
Peter gave us a bag each of two Ethiopian Yirgacheffe coffees, and when I've tasted them - this time with sugar and milk
Aarrgghh!!! 
Each to his own.
The two Yirgacheffe coffees were (1) Helen Nigus and (2) Biloya.
I tried the Helen Nigus yesterday for the first time and can report that it's delicious. Purists will argue that, as I polluted it with milk and sugar, I can't possibly be a coffee lover anyway, but even after pollution it has great complexity and depth. It also smells wonderful when you open the bag. Mmm!
On the matter of Fair Trade, when Peter told us that he was giving up a particular source and mentioned that the other beans were from single estates I asked whether he meant that the other beans were Fair Trade. He quickly put me straight on that one. He said that he pays a premium to the growers. In other words, the deal is better than Fair Trade. Both of the Yirgacheffe coffees are from a few small farms, and the Biloya comes from someone called Abdullah Bageresh (described as farmer, miller and exporter on the pack). Hence they not only exceed Fair Trade standards but tick the traceability (very popular among BMW-driving, suburban customers) box as well. |
| BaftaBaby |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 15:43:05
quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
There's really no "ethical" coffee anyway, because it's a cash crop grown for export that's far less efficient to produce than subsistence crops. A coffee tree yields one pound of roasted coffee per year. "Fair Trade Coffee" prices are only relative...the third world farmers could easily feed themselves if they were growing corn instead. But they don't own the land. Fair Trade is just another gimmick designed to let overprivileged suburban middle class types fool themselves into believing they're being socially responsible as they drive around in their Beemers with "Save Darfur" bumper stickers on the back. If they really cared, it would bother them that despite paying a laughable $4 for a latte, the person that served it to them is barely over minimum wage.
I simply choose not to mix politics with my breakfast. I just enjoy my morning coffee and don't let anyone make me feel guilty about it. I don't have to pay $15 for a pound of beans to prove I care.
Edit: okay, I guess I sort of just repeated what Bafta said.
Uhm ... not quite, though I agree with some of your analysis. The most 'ethical' way I know, given the global eco-climate, is to assure the beans come from grower-owned collectives. Happily, thanks to some responsible distributors [such as The Tea & Coffee Plant which I mention above] - more of these are being encouraged. There's a small network of them, for example, in Cuba, mostly owned by women. They pool their crop so Ian Henshall is assured of sustainably grown beans which don't monopolize land for subsistence farming and growing.
I'm not interested in making anyone feel guilty ... but I would like them to at least think about the consequences of their actions, and perhaps - as with the Nike situation - hold biz to account when it depends on the absurd exploitation of others.
Sneakers used to cost a couple of dollars and they were just fine, even though we didn't fantasize about being Super-Speedy Gonzales when we did up the laces.
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| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 15:19:53
quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
If they really cared, it would bother them that despite paying a laughable $4 for a latte, the person that served it to them is barely over minimum wage.
Now that's what I call hitting a real home run! You've got that right!
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| Downtown |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 15:14:44
There's really no "ethical" coffee anyway, because it's a cash crop grown for export that's far less efficient to produce than subsistence crops. A coffee tree yields one pound of roasted coffee per year. "Fair Trade Coffee" prices are only relative...the third world farmers could easily feed themselves if they were growing corn instead. But they don't own the land. Fair Trade is just another gimmick designed to let overprivileged suburban middle class types fool themselves into believing they're being socially responsible as they drive around in their Beemers with "Save Darfur" bumper stickers on the back. If they really cared, it would bother them that despite paying a laughable $4 for a latte, the person that served it to them is barely over minimum wage.
I simply choose not to mix politics with my breakfast. I just enjoy my morning coffee and don't let anyone make me feel guilty about it. I don't have to pay $15 for a pound of beans to prove I care.
Edit: okay, I guess I sort of just repeated what Bafta said. |
| BaftaBaby |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:27:57
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Okay, I get that ethical stuff, but you know, everything is relative. Having seen what life in the villages in Ethiopia is like, I wonder if that movie doesn't put things like living in a dirt floor hut into the "unacceptable living conditions" category. The truth is, while we might think it would be nice for these people to live in flats with running water, I'm not sure that they would agree. You may know that Israel brought thousands of Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) and Falas Mura (Jews that had converted) to Israel and if you speak with them you might hear things like this:
"In Ethiopia I had a small hut and had to walk half a day to get water but I woke up every morning, made my bread and milked my cow and had food for the whole day. Today, I have an apartment with running water and a fridge and a toilet and even a television. But after I pay the rent and water and electricity I don't have money left to buy milk or bread."
So what I'm saying is, what may seem to westerners as "unethical" might not be as unethical as you think. Of course, if the workers are being beaten or starved or kept against their will, that's something else. I haven't seen the film, but we must be very careful that we don't make ethnocentric judgements on the way people live and call it unethical.
While I take your points, I think the ethical issues reach far wider than the price of bread. Especially when it comes to the way agri-business has affected global production of all sorts of comestibles, and the consequences to social structure.
Coffee production is only one of the crops which has been highjacked to meet growing western demand at the expense of local balanced production. Ethiopia, like most traditional agrarian societies, lived for centuries - whatever internicine conflicts occured - against a backdrop of sustainable agriculture for the people of each area. Even the more nomadic peoples of the region maintained a balanced diet by knowing which fruits & veg came into season. Trade was a small supplement.
What agribusiness does is assure monocultures that have grave consequences. These tactics not only apply to the coffee industry but are classic methods of economic domination.
1. Balanced production is skewed to the detriment of people's health
2. Crops and profits from their trade are taken out of the hands of local people
3. Families are split up, forcing workers into dormitory conditions sometimes hundred of miles from their friends and loved ones. Once trapped into these living conditions the coffee-giants placate the growing depression and restlessness with dollops of alcohol, and often pornography [whether or not this offends any local religious and spiritual ethos]
I could go on, but it's easy to forget as one sips one's super-skinny-double-mariachi-band-espresso ... that the price of coffee goes way beyond the price of coffee.
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| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:10:56
Okay, I get that ethical stuff, but you know, everything is relative. Having seen what life in the villages in Ethiopia is like, I wonder if that movie doesn't put things like living in a dirt floor hut into the "unacceptable living conditions" category. The truth is, while we might think it would be nice for these people to live in flats with running water, I'm not sure that they would agree. You may know that Israel brought thousands of Beta Israel (Ethiopian Jews) and Falas Mura (Jews that had converted) to Israel and if you speak with them you might hear things like this:
"In Ethiopia I had a small hut and had to walk half a day to get water but I woke up every morning, made my bread and milked my cow and had food for the whole day. Today, I have an apartment with running water and a fridge and a toilet and even a television. But after I pay the rent and water and electricity I don't have money left to buy milk or bread."
So what I'm saying is, what may seem to westerners as "unethical" might not be as unethical as you think. Of course, if the workers are being beaten or starved or kept against their will, that's something else. I haven't seen the film, but we must be very careful that we don't make ethnocentric judgements on the way people live and call it unethical.
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| Sal[Au]pian |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 18:46:58
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
If you haven't already seen it, I recommend watching this before making coffee-buying decisions.
Hm... I'd have to see it, but I'm not going to stop drinking coffee!
It just means that one should but ethically sourced coffee. For people who want high-quality coffee (why anyone would like any coffee, I have no idea), it should not make any significant difference in price. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 07:47:25
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
If you haven't already seen it, I recommend watching this before making coffee-buying decisions.
Hm... I'd have to see it, but I'm not going to stop drinking coffee!
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| Downtown |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 01:03:20
Milk and sugar are for coffee drinkers that don't really like coffee.
DT has spoken. |
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