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GHcool 
"Forever a curious character."
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 Posted - 01/25/2007 : 20:46:01
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| Because my other thread went wildly beyond the scope of the topic I brought up, I thought I'd try again with a new thread. Feel free to discuss racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and all the other evils of the world on the other thread, but on this thread, I would like to hear opinions on the addition of films with racist titles. There has not been a clear consensus yet. |
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damalc
"last watched: Sausage Party"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 20:49:09
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| i say add 'em. we already have "The Legend of Nigger Charley," and probably some others. not having them in the fwfr database will not make the words or attitude behind the words disappear. |
Edited by - damalc on 01/25/2007 20:49:40 |
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 20:49:28
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Yes. They should be included.
That's what you want, right? Just an up or down vote? |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 21:18:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
Yes. They should be included.
That's what you want, right? Just an up or down vote?
Well, up or down is fine, but it would be nice if you could support your vote with sound reasoning. I'm leaning more toward the opinion that they should be excluded from our database because the costs (offending even one person) outweigh the benefits (inspiration for funny puns ... which there is no shortage of on this site and IMDb). |
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Rovark 
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 21:29:12
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I go with omit.
I figure if I'm sitting here at my computer and my mother should look over my shoulder, how much would I feel the need to justify myself. - 'course, that would also mean the exclusion of a number of Porno titles, so I'm kinda conflicted, but overall, I'll still stay with omit. |
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 22:08:50
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| The films exist, and ignoring the fact they exist is potentially ignoring the problem. I'd include them, as repellent as they may be. Inclusion is not condoning racisism, just as their inclusion on IMDB is not. Who knows - what if next year the best film that gets made is called "Nigger" and wins a dozen oscars - would we not include that film because of it's title? Of course not. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 22:21:14
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Censorship is fascism, I don't like it at all. This is even more relevant given that blocking these movies from the site would be essentially censorship of history, i.e. these movies were made, and they are called what they are called.
I won't be adding them, but if someone wants to add them, then add them (providing benj wants them added).  |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 22:23:16
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OK, that's enough of this topic, now discuss:-
IRAQ: Should the US send more troops? Or not?
    ... |
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BiggerBoat 
"Pass me the harpoon"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 23:14:37
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| I say allow them and the let the fwfers use their better judgement from that point on. |
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Josh the cat
"ice wouldn't melt, you'd think ....."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 23:32:32
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This site is full of offensive and crude material that should manage to offend the majority of people. Omitting these very old films merely highlights the racist nature of there material, maybe the witty and clever amongst us will be able to create/ craft reviews that make the content look as rediculous as the title is offensive to some of the fwfrers out there.
WE all have the ability to ignore them and not vote on the material/reviews posted.
Admit the films and reviewer beware becareful and be clever.
I hope that some of the wittier members are able to review these outdated films and no-one resorts to racism, if they do perhaps we will learn more about the fwfrer than they would hope.
I don't know that many of the members but I respect most of the members here and I believe that most will not resort to offensive reviewing.
Josh the tired cat |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 00:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Josh_the_cat
I don't know that many of the members but I respect most of the members here and I believe that most will not resort to offensive reviewing.
Josh the tired cat
Have you visited Chatterbox and all our other Toilet Graffiti flicks recently? 
Self regulation is noble but not always effective. However denying the sins of the past can become a great way to end up repeating them. |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 02:40:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
Self regulation is noble but not always effective. However denying the sins of the past can become a great way to end up repeating them.
Well said Conan.
The films exist, so I say they are fair game. However, I think GHC has raised a valid concern, and here is a good opportunity for us to explore possible approaches. For example, in recent years I have curtailed my use of expletives in the fourum, as I feel a twinge of guilt knowing that Conan's daughter may happen upon some of that stuff. As a parent, there's only so much hypocrisy I allow myself. Nonetheless, I also desire artistic freedom (though some may say dependency on expletives is more akin to autistic freedom, but I digress).
While it may very well be impossible to do, a feature that permits filtering out of designated terms or reviews of designated films (e.g., adult films) might be desireable for parents or for persons whose sensibilities might feel less upbraided by certain content. (I know: "offended" is more accurate, but I wanted to sound erudite, in case Conan's daughter is reading). Indeed, a filter that allows parents to block out such material might be desireable and may lead to the encouragement of participation by even a younger crowd. Since I have no such filters in effect on my computer, I'm not even sure whether this site gets through content filters.
So, again, I say we should keep the films, because more speech is better than less. However, GHC's point is a valid concern. I think we should explore possible ways of addressing the matter absent outright censorship. But, like I said, it's a very valid concern.
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 02:58:16
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I'm not sure that FWFR is meant to be a historical record in the same way IMDb is. If official fwfr policy is to disallow racist film titles, I don't think it reflects a desire to wipe out a dark (excuse the pun) chapter of American history as much as it reflects caution in the implications of placing these films as equally among "legitimate" films.
Consider a hypothetical annual film festival that screened films from exactly 100 years prior. In 2000, the film festival would have shown films from 1900; in 2001 they would show films from 1901; etc. Now put yourself in the place of the person in charge of selecting the films to be screened for the 2006 festival. Perhaps you would have included such timeless 1906 classics as "Oh! That Limburger: The Story Of A Piece Of Cheese" or "The Sham Sword Swallower", but would you have also chosen "The Whistling Coon" even though there are hundreds of other 1906 films to choose from? |
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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 03:54:23
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Is it possible to set up some criteria for accepting reviews based on whether the repeat of a racist, homophobic etc word in the title is clever wordplay or has racist implications? The imdb page for the film doesn't say what the film's about so I can't give an example of what I mean. If it's not possible to censor the reviews in that way, then I'd be inclined to say don't have them in the database to avoid offending people, as GHcool says.
Also, to respond to other comments - I agree that the films were of their time and that they are a 'historical record' of past prejudices rather than necessarily a comment on today's world. But that fact in itself could offend people of the social/race group referred to. I see fwfr as a site for film fans, rather than trying to replicate the content of the idmb. I understand why some people are saying that this is 'editing' history - but if it were just about having the film title in the database, like idmb, that would be different. The whole point of this site is the four word review, and there are hundreds of reviews that demonstrate the potential for people to use words in an offensive way, possibly revealing the poster's personal prejudices. If a racist word is in the title, it opens the floodgate for questionable reviews.
If the decision is not to have them, then I assume that other questionable titles already entered can be removed to be consistent?
To GHCool - if the comment on the other thread about the tangent the thread was taking was directed at me (which I didn't think it was, by the way) apologies, I was just following the direction others seemed to be going.
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 05:50:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
To GHCool - if the comment on the other thread about the tangent the thread was taking was directed at me (which I didn't think it was, by the way) apologies, I was just following the direction others seemed to be going.
No, it wasn't directed at you or any other individual FWFR'er. At first, I was a little irritated that the purpose of the thread was diverted, but I certainly do not hold a grudge, especially now that the topic is being addressed here. |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 06:06:59
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Posted on the other thread but apparently overlooked:
*takes a deep breath*
Okay. I'm willing to venture out without another long viewpoint to give a straight up yes or no answer to say that if it's listed in IMDB, which is the Bible of the site, then yes, it should be included, regardless. If we start by censoring inclusion of a film based on words in the title, then the next step could conceivably be to censor inclusion of a film because of its content. No one is shouting to remove the porn titles, though they certainly may offend someone. A while back, I asked someone if something would be offensive and the answer I was given is that we don't censor based on taste. If someone should find it offensive, they certainly have a choice in not voting for it or reviewing it.
*exhales* |
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Topic |
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Racist films (2nd try)
