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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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 Posted - 03/13/2007 : 09:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Enthroned - Carnage in World's Beyond (Belgian black metal)
Deicide - Stench of Redemption (US Satanic death metal)
Dimmu Borgir - Stormbl�st (Norwegian symphonic black metal)
Arch Enemy - Wages of Sin (Swedish death metal)
Children of Bodom - Something Wild (Finnish melodic death metal)
In Flames - The Jester Race (Swedish melodic death metal)
Satyricon - Nemesis Divina (Norwegian black metal)
Cradle of Filth - Cruelty and the Beast (UK operatic black metal)
Do you get Rage in NZ? I've seen several of these names during the really late night slots. 'Melodic' death metal seems a bit of an oxymoron! How do melodic, operatic and symphonic translate into metal? |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 11:16:00
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I invented the term "operatic black metal" when I wrote that post, although the others are in common usage.  "Operatic black metal" is a sub-genre that contains only one band - Cradle of Filth, and it fits their epic albums very nicely. I wonder if it'll catch on. 
If you listened to an album of each of those bands the reason for the sub-genre names would be obvious. In a nutshell, the prefix 'melodic' simply implies much more emphasis on melody, most likely from guitars or synth, whereas the prefix 'symphonic' implies the use of an 80-piece orchestra (possibly synthesised). For example Cradle of Filth's "Damnation and a Day" album was recorded using the Budapest Film Orchestra and Budapest Film Choir. I've also heard of other metal bands using the Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra (I'm guessing they're cheaper than the London or Stockholm orchestras).
Here's a Wiki link on symphonic metal to get you started. Or a link to a few other genres.
On the whole, Anglo-Western metal bands have never bridged the gap between classical and folk and metal, I'm guessing this is because the musicians don't have folk or classical music 'in their bones'. It's a whole different story in Scandinavia; even in the heaviest of death/black metal bands the influences of Nordic folk rhythms and melodies can be obvious (heavy use of triplets and 3/4 rhythms and minor keys for a start). I'd say 90% of my favourite metal produced since 1990 is Scandinavian, hardly surprising given Nordic folk music is also my favourite folk music (as much as I love Irish or Jewish or West African folk music, Nordic is more my thing).
Folk metal and Viking metal are absolute fusion genres, i.e, metalised Finnish polkas etc. Love it.  Try and sell this stuff in the Anglo-Western world though.  If you want to hear a quick slice of this without going to a CD shop then click this link to hear a few seconds of a few tracks from Finntroll's latest album (they're Finnish obviously), I'd call it 'folk metal / melodic death metal fusion' or something. I've got this album on order. Can't wait. 
I could go on and on about this for hours, but the way I see it, Scandinavia has a tradition of folk music, but never came up with any good 'pop music' (some will argue ABBA were an exception). My guess is the cold, darkness of Nordic winters doesn't suit lively pop, it's not generally natural to them. But then in the early to mid 1980's the UK punk era 'ended' with a paradigm shift in the name of Discharge, who started as the heaviest punk band of all, and ended up as more thrash metal. But, some in Scandinavia loved the sound, and it was like a fuse had been lit. What marked the end of UK punk marked the beginning of Nordic death/black metal. Metal spread around Scandinavia like wildfire, and it's still burning. I can hear the 'Discharge sound' in a lot of Nordic metal, but on the whole, those they inspired became a lot more popular than Discharge themselves ever were.
My opinion is that music is climatological, and the dark, heaviness of metal suits the cold, still relentless northern winters, it comes more naturally up there (this 'darkness' is also evident in their folk music). So, nobody in Lappland in winter is gonna create reggae or soukous. Likewise nobody in Jamaica is gonna think of creating music that makes you feel like you're being swallowed by a black hole. |
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 11:59:21
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| Thanks Sean! I'll check out the links |
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Koli 
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 21:24:36
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My car list is a strange mixture, now I come to look through it:
1. Punk Xplosion - various: 44 tracks in all (actually I'm not that fond of it; there's a lot of dross either side of the gems - and, dare I say it... some of it doesn't fit in my definition of punk);
2. Retrospectacle - Supertramp (I'm playing this more than any other CD in the car at the moment);
3. Greatest Hits - Bob Seger (I think he's underrated);
4. Gran Tourisimo - The Cardigans;
5. Blonde on Blonde - Bob Dylan;
6. Lullabies to Paralyze - Queens of the Stone Age;
7. Feel Good Hit of The Summer - Queens of the Stone Age;
8. Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not - Arctic Monkeys;
9. Transformer - Lou Reed;
10. Stories From the City, Stories From the Sea - P J Harvey;
11. The Chicago Story: The Complete Greatest Hits;
12. Reise, Reise - Rammstein
13. Get Ready - New Order;
14. Briefcase Full of Blues - Blues Brothers;
15. The Best of Black Sabbath;
16. Live it Like You Love It - The Charlatans;
17. You Really Got Me: The Best of The Kinks;
18. Songs For The Deaf - Queens of the Stone Age;
19. 20 Great Love Songs - The Beach Boys; 
20. The Doors - The Doors;
21. All That You Can't Leave Behind - U2;
22. Johnny Cash (some sort of compilation courtesy of The Sunday Times).
If you're feeling generous you'll agree that there's something there for my every mood. There should be a copy of South Pacific in there somewhere too (good for singing along to). |
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Koli
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 21:43:11
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Probably more interesting (well, more relevant to the thread anyway) than my car list is the track listing for the first cassette I recorded of some of my favourite punk music, way back in October 1978 for a weekend in Scotland with the lads. Somewhat pretentiously I gave it a name, 'This 'n' That':
This Side
Pretty Vacant - Sex Pistols
Sheena is a Punk Rocker - Ramones
Holidays in the Sun - Sex Pistols
Cretin Hop - Ramones
Rockaway Beach - Ramones
Anarchy in the UK - Sex Pistols
Bring on the Nubiles - Stranglers
Sick on You - The Boys (little-known Brit punk band; saw 'em twice)
Here Today, Gone Tomorrow - Ramones
Dagenham Dave - Stranglers
No Feelings - Sex Pistols
That Side
Hong Kong Garden - Siouxie and the Banshees
Denis - Blondie
This is the Modern World - The Jam
She's So Modern - Boomtown Rats
Picture This - Blondie
Don't Touch Me There - The Tubes
Jilted John - Jilted John
Rat Trap - Boomtown Rats
God Save The Queen - Sex Pistols |
Edited by - Koli on 03/13/2007 21:45:01 |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 22:52:39
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Koli, "This 'n That" is a trip down memory lane. I know about 2/3rds of those songs, and have about half of them. Some of my favourite punk albums are in fact compilations. There were some excellent punk compilations that came out in the '90s. In fact here's a list of my punk compilations:-
"The Best Punk Album In The World...Ever!" - this one is a Virgin double album (48 tracks), and is pretty much what the title says. It's first wave stuff.
"The Sound of the Suburbs" - also first wave stuff. A bit of crossover with the above, but still damn good.
"Anarchy in the UK" - more first wave stuff, again some crossover with the above.
"Burning Ambitions- A History of Punk: Vol 1 & 2" - Anagram Records. Some first wave, but heaps of second wave, includes some pretty fiery obscure stuff, e.g., 'The Boys, 'The Blood', 'One Way System' etc. Excellent albums.
"Riot City Records - The Punk Singles Collection" - second wave stuff, e.g., 'Vice Squad', 'Chaotic Dischord' and some obscure material. Also excellent. BTW, even though it's a single CD there are 30 tracks on this.
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 23:08:32
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| Anyone of fan of Stiff Little Fingers? I see they are touring again. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 23:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
Anyone of fan of Stiff Little Fingers? I see they are touring again.
Wow, I was a big fan of theirs, one of my first albums was Hanx. |
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Koli
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 21:09:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
Anyone of fan of Stiff Little Fingers? I see they are touring again.
I wasn't a great fan but loved their single 'Alternative Ulster'.
I see they're in Birmingham on 6 May, and could be tempted. I have a son in Manchester and wouldn't be surprised if he went to see them when they play there. (Numbers 1 & 3 sons are both into rock but something went wrong with the second one: he's more of a R&B and hip-hop boy.) |
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Koli
"Striving lackadaisically for perfection."
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 21:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Koli, "This 'n That" is a trip down memory lane.
Glad to be of service.
... In fact here's a list of my punk compilations:-
"The Best Punk Album In The World...Ever!" - this one is a Virgin double album (48 tracks), and is pretty much what the title says. It's first wave stuff.
This I must look out for.
"Burning Ambitions- A History of Punk: Vol 1 & 2" - Anagram Records. Some first wave, but heaps of second wave, includes some pretty fiery obscure stuff, e.g., 'The Boys, 'The Blood', 'One Way System' etc. Excellent albums.
I really didn't think you'd have heard of The Boys. As you say, a bit obscure.
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 23:08:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Koli
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
"The Best Punk Album In The World...Ever!" - this one is a Virgin double album (48 tracks), and is pretty much what the title says. It's first wave stuff.
This I must look out for.
Here's the Amazon link. Might be hard to find. Here's the track list:-
1. Anarchy In The UK - Sex Pistols
2. Ever Fallen In Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) - Buzzcocks
3. Teenage Kicks - Undertones
4. Into The Valley - Skids
5. New Rose - Damned
6. Babylon's Burning - Ruts
7. Sheena Is A Punk Rocker - Ramones
8. Sound Of The Suburbs - Members
9. All Around The World - Jam (1)
10. Another Girl Another Planet - Only Ones
11. Passenger - Iggy Pop
12. Making Plans For Nigel - XTC (1)
13. Peaches - Stranglers
14. Sex And Drugs And Rock 'n' Roll - Dury, Ian & The Blockheads
15. I Don't Want To Go To Chelsea - Chelsea
16. Denis - Blondie
17. 2468 Motorway - Robinson, Tom Band
18. Milk And Alcohol - Dr. Feelgood (1)
19. Looking After No 1 - Boomtown Rats
20. Deutscher Girls - Adam & The Ants
21. Christine - Siouxsie & The Banshees
22. Identity - X-Ray Spex
23. C30 C60 C90 Go - Bow Wow Wow
24. Public Image - Public Image Ltd.
25. My Way - Vicious, Sid
26. God Save The Queen - Sex Pistols
27. Neat Neat Neat - Damned
28. Gary Gilmore's Eyes - Adverts
29. Top Of The Pops - Rezillos
30. Dancing The Night Away - Motors
31. What Do I Get - Buzzcocks
32. Jilted John - Jilted John
33. I Am The Fly - Wire (1)
34. Mongoloid - Devo
35. Roadrunner - Richman, Jonathan & Modern Lovers
36. White Punks On Dope - Tubes
37. Blank Generation - Hell, Richard & The Voidoids
38. Marquee Moon - Television (1)
39. Psycho Killer - Talking Heads
40. Stop Your Sobbing - Pretenders (1)
41. Is She Really Going Out With Him - Jackson, Joe
42. Ready Steady Go - Generation X (1)
43. Get A Grip (On Yourself) - Stranglers
44. Shot By Both Sides - Magazine
45. Alternative Ulster - Stiff Little Fingers
46. Eighties - Killing Joke
47. Money - Flying Lizards
48. Kung Fu International - Clarke, John Cooper
I see there's also a Vol 2. |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 03/15/2007 : 01:48:40
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I don't know all these songs and artists, but XTC and Joe Jackson could not be called punk, and neither would I call Talking Heads punk (although closer). And Dr Feelgood is R&B. All punk period, but not all punk.
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Edited by - Whippersnapper. on 03/15/2007 02:03:50 |
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 03/15/2007 : 02:51:57
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The bass riff from Nirvana's Come As You Are has an uncanny resemblance to that from Killing Joke's Eighties.
That's an impressive list of artists but most of those aren't examples of their best songs. X-Ray Spex and no Oh Bondage!? That's one of the best punk songs of all time. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/15/2007 : 08:31:25
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I agree with the above two posts. I'd also suggest that Blondie wasn't punk although was certainly part of the scene at one stage.
I'd guess Virgin didn't put the absolute best-of-the-best on one album to leave room for sequels (or perhaps it was a case of opinion on what is 'best'). It's still a damn good album though.
Haven't listened to it for ages though, not in a punk mood. I've been in a nothing-but-metal mood for ages, got some utterly-evil-sounding Enthroned on at the moment. Punk is girlie-pop compared to that.  |
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 03/15/2007 : 13:58:16
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| Blondie and Talking Heads are great examples of punk bands that became pop groups. There's nothing wrong with that, by the way. You just have to acknowledge that at some point they stopped being punk. It would be silly to call Call Me or Heart of Glass punk, but Blondie's early appearances at CBGBs certainly were. |
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Punk Rock
