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Ali 
"Those aren't pillows."
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 Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:23:15
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I just got a new job. It is with one of Turkey's (and the world's) largest companies - we are talking Fortune 500 here. The entire package (not that package, you perverts) they offered me is incrementally better than the one I had at my current job. I never had a rigid notice period so we are negotiating with my boss on when I can leave. Legally, I am obligated to stay for six weeks, but I still have three weeks holiday left, and Turkish Labour Law (yes, we have one, and it's not written backwards on parchment) allows a one week holiday for job hunting after an employee hands in their notice. My boss still hasn't accepted my resignation, so I can't claim my set of documents (like my diplomas, social security information etc) from Human Resources yet. Anyway, it seems like they are going to try and keep me at my old job for as long as they can, and make the whole process a huge hassle. But, Alea Iacta Est, as they say, and what's done is done. If it comes to it, I have no qualms getting a lawyer involved.
In a fourth season episode of the eponymous sitcom, Frasier comes up with a wonderful line, after Martin and Sherry, his ebullient girlfriend, whom the brothers hated, split up. Frasier lies on the couch, enjoying the silence of a Sherry-free flat, and utters to Daphne: "I feel like a seafront village after the Vikings have left." That's exactly how I feel right now.
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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:29:04
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You must be good at what you do if they don't want to lose you |
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ChocolateLady 
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:37:10
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They can hold your documents randsom like that? Did you have to give them originals when you were hired? This sounds like something uniquely Turkish to me.
(Like making the most amazing stuffed vine leaves in the world, that aren't in the least bit sour!)
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Ali
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 11:41:22
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Thanks guys. They can't keep the documents ransom, and nor can they withhold payment. They can, however, make life difficult.
They can't refuse my holidays, because that would put them officially in the wrong, legally giving me a reason to leave without notice. If I just upped and left now, they can, technically, sue me for 6-weeks pay, which I don't think they will do, and which I am not bothered about paying even if they did. I just want the whole thing to go smoothly, and to get all my papers from personnel. Some of them are very hard to get, like the official record of my military service, and even though I have the actual documents at home, I don't want my previous company to have copies of them, either. Besides, new copies will need to get approved by a notary, which is a pain in the ass in itself. Eventually, of course, they have to give everything back to me as they have no right to keep them whatsoever, but I don't want a protracted process in order to get what I need. It's been a very stressful month going to interviews, while keeping up appearances at my then-current, now-previous, job, and I just want to be able to put my feet up, and, finally, exhale.
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 12:04:01
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Do I sniff the possibility of an "Ali, bye!" joke somewhere around here?
Best of luck to you Ali - you'll go a long way.
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 12:18:04
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Yikes, sounds like the system is set up to discourage working! 
Most businesses downunder would have no trouble bending the rules to let someone go as soon as they've resigned, it's generally considered to be in the company's interest to get rid of someone ASAP if they don't want to be there and have quit. What use is a worker who totally resents being there?
I'm self-employed, so I've only myself to blame if my boss is a tosser.  |
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Whippersnapper.
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 13:56:12
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If?
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 14:43:16
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| Say what you want about at-will employment, but nothing like what you've described would ever happen in the US. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 16:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
Say what you want about at-will employment, but nothing like what you've described would ever happen in the US.
Well, yes, but only because employers in the USA don't ask for or keep notarized copies of documents of those kinds. However, they would never give you your personnel file, either, and can hold anything in it against you whenever they want. Companies in the US could easily sue you for not staying on until the end of your notice period, and could also sue you for any excess holiday you took but hadn't earned. American employers can be far more nasty than what Ali is talking about - all depending on what kind of agreements you signed when you got the job, where you were in the company when you left and how 'secret' they want the inner workings of their company to be.
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 16:59:54
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quote:
Well, yes, but only because employers in the USA don't ask for or keep notarized copies of documents of those kinds.
No, because the main issue isn't that they have his files...it's that his right to leave his old job is restricted. He can't just walk away whenever he feels like it. He's not an at-will employee. I'm sure that a law ensuring his right to quit whenever he wants would also ensure that once he does, they have to release those files.
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Companies in the US could easily sue you for not staying on until the end of your notice period
Absolutely not, at least not under the circumstances I was talking about. There's no such thing as "a notice period" in at-will employment. That's the definition of at-will employment: you can leave at any time, for any reason, with or without any prior notice, and there's nothing they can do about it (and you can be let go at any time, with or without notice, and there's nothing you can do about it). The idea of "two weeks notice" is merely a professional courtesy, not any sort of requirement that anybody can be sued for breaking.
Nobody can make you stay at your job unless you have an employment CONTRACT that specifies when it expires. But very few American workers that aren't in unions are contract workers, almost all of us are at-will, so the scenario you describe is extremely rare. If someone offers you a better job, you can quit your old job right away and start the new one tomorrow, unless you're violating a "non-compete agreement," which are always very specific and not the same as an employment contract at all. More importantly, the sentiment behind your comments frequently leads to bad labor policy: when you start passing laws meant to "protect" workers from the dangers of at-will employment - specifically, the danger of getting laid off and having to look for a new job - you end up with chronic unemployment like what is frequently seen in many European countries. Companies are very reluctant to create new jobs when they're afraid that they won't be allowed to let workers go if business turns bad and the company starts losing money. Worse, when you take the at-will option away from employers, you have to take it away from employees, too, simply as a matter of fairness. And I'm thinking that's why Ali is having these difficulties right now. |
Edited by - Downtown on 04/27/2007 17:00:57 |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 17:44:19
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Many Congratulations, Ali, on what sounds like a truly fab job! 
I'm sure your current glitches will resolve themselves and then you'll be free to run amok with your cheek and wit among the new guys
Well done, you!!!
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 18:18:11
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| Thanks Bafta, for reminding me that in my rush to offer my own commentary, I lost sight of the good news in all this. Good luck at your new job, Ali! |
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turrell
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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Posted - 04/27/2007 : 19:20:14
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Congrats, Ali!!
Maybe now your avatar can afford a new shirt!
Legal issues aside, it is surprising that they would want you to work there for that long unless you have active projects that need to be finished or you need to transition something to your replacement. If its just for spite, it will end up hurting them more than you - not saying that you wouldn't still perform your duties, but someone who wants to leave can be a negative influence on coworkers.
Best of luck - keep up updated on yor unfolding saga and congrats on your impressively growing package!  |
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Rovark
"Luck-pushing, rule-bending, chance-taking reviewer"
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Posted - 04/28/2007 : 11:41:11
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I know it's somewhat different, but when Mrs Rovark was being made redundant over Christmas, she went in on January 2nd, was given her final confirmation of redundancy, taken to her desk to pack up her stuff and escorted from the premises. She was paid in lieu of her notice period. I think they just figure a disgruntled employee can do so much damage, especially in these computerised times, they're not worth keeping around.
Perhaps it says a lot for the regard they have for you Ali, that they not only want to keep you there, but feel secure that you won't sabotage them out of spite.
What we usually call a left-handed complement here. |
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duh 
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 04/28/2007 : 13:51:14
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Congratulations, Ali. You must be very good at what you do!
I've had lots of different jobs over my lifetime and am delighted to be self-employed now. The last job I had, I gathered up my stuff one Friday and walked out without a word to anyone, and never went back. Monday morning, the phone began to ring, and I just let it ring. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 04/28/2007 : 23:14:44
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quote:
Originally posted by duh
The last job I had, I gathered up my stuff one Friday and walked out without a word to anyone, and never went back. Monday morning, the phone began to ring, and I just let it ring.
Yikes! Did they deserve it (employer, workmates etc)? |
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New Job
