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turrell 
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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 Posted - 01/21/2009 : 20:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
Mr. Obama is a lawyer: a person with specific and rigorous training in the law. To the public psyche, being a lawyer is like being a cop: everybody hates them until trouble starts and you need them. If being a lawyer were a pedestrian thing, then every pedestrian would be a lawyer. Being a lawyer is a unique thing: legal training is a mentally expansive process that aims to hone critical and analytical thinking; being a good lawyer, trained by some of the best legal minds in the world, therefore, is an extremely unique thing. Bill Clinton was a lawyer. George Bush has an MBA � he�s not a lawyer. Do you see the difference already?
Hmm I wonder what you do for a living - oh that's right you're a lawyer just like Richard fucking Nixon - I forgot how perfect lawyers were for a moment. By the way I am an MBA and with all due respect, you sir are goddamn insensitive for saying such a thing.
Ok I'm kidding but I like when people say with all due respect - and then they launch into a vicious diatribe - as if there is anything respectful in what they were about to say. It's akin to Simon Cowell saying "I don't mean to be rude" and then saying something very rude.
But come on I could have handled law school - I just didn't want to be a lawyer and to suggest that an MBA from Harvard is a negative pursuit is ludicrous. There are some Harvard MBAs that are smart caring people - I know a few. And then there are all sorts of lawyers good and bad.
We should be celebrating Obama for his skill, intelligence and natural gifts to lead more so than his legal training - they have people to do all the legal stuff for you, he needs to lead and that is natural in the man. |
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MguyX 
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 01/21/2009 : 21:53:37
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Turrell, my friend, you are absolutely correct, and I stand corrected. I apologize for what you have demonstrated is -- at best -- a poorly explained idea, and -- at worst -- a logically flawed statement. Please allow me to clarify.
Being charitable and forgiving (to and of myself -- I know: "What a nice guy!" Please; it's just one of those random acts of kindness that I perform on a daily basis, for myself, so no more of your praise for now), I think that what I was trying to say was that (1) lawyers are not necessarily bad people (though there are significant numbers who are); (2) empirical evidence suggests that lawyers should be capable of performing well in critical thinking and analysis; and (3) that especially well-trained lawyers can reasonably be expected to perform those tasks at an admirably high level. Accordingly, bringing that kind of distinction to the task of the Presidency should be viewed as a bonus, not a flaw.
However, whether one pursues solely an MBA or solely a JD is not per se a distinguishing factor in answering the question of one's qualification to serve as President. That unintentional implication is not something that I espouse. Further, that one possesses a JD makes one no more necessarily inclined to deceit, dissembling, or debullshit than possessing an MBA makes one more inclined to organizing or-gettingthingsdone. Though unintentional, it was a cheap shot to compare what is probably a poor example of an MBA holder -- GB -- to more accomplished JD holders, such as Bill Clinton (in this regard, even Richard Nixon proved to be more of an accomplished President, though he sullied his record with a legacy of deceit).
There are significant numbers of masterful MBA holders who are certainly well-qualified to serve as the Chief Executive of the United States [fn1].
Again, I stand duly corrected for failing to express my thought properly, logically and clearly. 
[fn1] Of course, it is difficult to find qualified, available MBA holders for the Chief Executive position, as most of them headed large corporations and financial services organizations and are faking their own deaths, serving prison sentences for fraud, or are on their way to prison. 
Present company excluded, of course.  |
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duh 
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 06:26:17
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
What angers me is that no politician ever makes plain the connection between military budgets that depend on fomenting wars and conflicts - and the impoverishment of the majority in order to marginalize them politically and socially - and the mass corruption of financial institutions that pollutes so far and wide.
Perhaps the meaning of this sentence has come gone (I do that a lot -- think I've used the correct word but later see I used the wrong word. I hope I don't have alzheimers.) over my head. That is very likely, as I am not an intellectual and am not a political thinker.
I just want to mention that all of the soldiers that I know, including my husband and daughter, are people of peace. They are what author Dave Grossman refers to as "sheepdogs." My husband and my daughter have a mysterious, old fashioned, romantic idea of honor and of a duty to protect their fellow citizens. (So does my son, but he is ineligible to serve in the military because of being deaf and having asthma. I think I'm a sheepdog too. I think I would be the dumbshit who would stay awake to fly the plane back through the portal between the Tommy Knockers reality and the real reality, so that my companions could survive. Someone's gotta do it.)
Within the military population, there is a tremendous range of personal philosophies, religious beliefs, and political affiliations.
Last spring, I went to a convention of military personnel with my husband. A guest speaker was a colonel who serves at a high level in Washington. During the question and answer period, one soldier became somewhat abrasive towards the guest, and told him, "I didn't join the Guard to go kill people in Iraq."
Everyone was polite and let him speak without so much as a gasp, and the guest speaker was polite and answered the fellow's question. However, I wondered to myself how that "sheep" got in amongst all these "sheepdogs." His comment was ludicrous (no one there had joined the Guard to go kill people anywhere), but just the same, he got to go home with the satisfaction of knowing that he had sassed off at a key player in the military hierarchy.
I jokingly referred to the inauguration as "the coronation," and "the second coming," but mostly because my neighbor has been a big Obama fan and regales me daily with how much she admires him and how much she hates Bush/McCain/Palin. As I said, I am not a political thinker, and that kind of talk wears thin with me. I tolerate it from her because she is such a good friend. I just let her rattle on and I don't say much in return.
To me, some things about the Obama presidency look especially promising, such as better funding for important scientific research. Other things, I am waiting-and-seeing...which is a good thing, because that's the only practical choice anyhow. ;)
Like I've mentioned other times, I have come to see, because of the proximity of my husband's office to that of the governor's (she's a Democrat and fairly liberal, but has a warm relationship with the Guard), that high level government doesn't differ all that much from the boards and committees of your little local clubs and associations.
Presidents don't impress me. No one impresses me. I would be as polite to a president as I would be to any stranger off the street, but to impress me, you'd have to fix me up with an FWFR convention with you guys, and I probably would get an attack of social phobia and not attend. |
Edited by - duh on 01/22/2009 06:38:48 |
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MguyX
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 06:44:33
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
He has already reneged on Guantanamo closure.
I hate to keep bringing this up, but I understand that leather soles digest much better than rubber or other synthetics; just be sure not to take them off before nibbling:
Obama to limit CIA, order Guantanamo closed
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 06:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by duh Improper Username
Presidents don't impress me. No one impresses me. I would be as polite to a president as I would be to any stranger off the street, but to impress me, you'd have to fix me up with an FWFR convention with you guys, and I probably would get an attack of social phobia and not attend.
Gosh, so if I plan a visit to KC to see my ex-sister-in-law and her kids, you might back out and not meet up with me?
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 07:08:16
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Aside from that, I really thought this announcement was a true step in the right direction.
The late, great Steve Goodman once wrote a song called "Somebody Else's Troubles" and one part says:
quote:
And I saw the boss come a-walking down along that factory line,
He said, "We all have to tighten up our belts."
But he didn't look any thinner than he did a year ago,
And I wonder just how hungry that man felt.
That's 'cause it ain't hard
To get along with somebody else's troubles,
And they don't make you lose any sleep at night.
Just as long as fate is out there bustin' somebody else's bubbles,
Everything's gonna be all right.
Everything's gonna be all right.
I think old Steve is smiling in his heaven right now, knowing his fellow Chicagoian in the White House finally does care about "somebody else's troubles"!
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Edited by - ChocolateLady on 01/22/2009 07:09:21 |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 09:51:38
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quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
He has already reneged on Guantanamo closure.
I hate to keep bringing this up, but I understand that leather soles digest much better than rubber or other synthetics; just be sure not to take them off before nibbling:
Obama to limit CIA, order Guantanamo closed
Yeah - obviously he's been reading our posts 
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 01/22/2009 09:52:45 |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 09:54:46
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quote:
Originally posted by duh Improper Username
Lotsa stuff to discuss here - I'll definitely make time for a reply -- once I have my coffee!
OK - caffeine duly injected! I hope the following will make sense bearing in mind I'm racing to meet some deadlines and don't have time for fine-tuning. But, duh, you hardly ever post in these discussions and I have utmost respect for you, so will try to address some of the very important issues you raise. Plus I thank you for doing so - diversity is as vital in human reason as it is in the optimum balance of nature.
quote:
Perhaps the meaning of this sentence has come gone (I do that a lot -- think I've used the correct word but later see I used the wrong word. I hope I don't have alzheimers.) over my head. That is very likely, as I am not an intellectual and am not a political thinker.
I'm not really sure what an intellectual is - I'm certainly not one! And I believe thinking about politics means thinking about every aspect of life - which we're all qualified to do. I don't think anything has gone over your head.
I'm committed to the equality of expression which, btw, seems a far more effective tenet of democracy to me than casting a vote at regular or irregular intervals. No time for a treatise on that, you'll be thrilled to hear.
Nothing of what I wrote cast aspersions on any individual soldier. I try not to lump groups of people together; I think my postings here demonstrate that. So that sentence of mine which you quoted:
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
What angers me is that no politician ever makes plain the connection between military budgets that depend on fomenting wars and conflicts - and the impoverishment of the majority in order to marginalize them politically and socially - and the mass corruption of financial institutions that pollutes so far and wide.
isn't about soldiers. It's about hypocrisy. It's about the deceit of establishments in assuring the status remains quo, and the ways it goes about doing that.
It isn't even about America. Or Bush or Obama or Republicans or Democrats or Socialists or Communists or other abstractions.
It's about the anomalies of logic based on tautology and sand. It's about parcelling off facets of life which are interconnected and ignoring the connection. It's about demonizing people to divert attention from real goals.
I think - and please believe me this is NOT to denigrate any member of your family - that soldiers and factory workers and whatever has replaced the typing pool are all playing a part to preserve a hierarchy of power that, when you think about it in wider historical terms, only crept into our species about 10,000 years ago. Before that the structure of groups was circular with no one telling others what to do. I know it's difficult to imagine how such a society could function, given there's so little evidence of it today. But, yes, there are remnants of people living with no designated leader. And, of course, the archeological evidence is undisputed. The key factor, of course, is size.
But we've been a species for give or take a million years and during that time all the seminal inventions that form the bedrock of human progress were invented, devised, and discovered. It's only in the past 10,000 that we imposed on ourselves the ways and means to unleash destruction, to work against our innate nature to find out, to work together, to explore that which is decent and creative in us all and to understand that unless those ideas and impulses are shared, we become less than we might be.
So, yes, it saddens me that the world has become a place of barriers - between nations, between peoples, between neighbors. And yet I still believe we can get back to the roots of our common decency. But I also believe the quarrels and shoot-outs and bombings and declarations of war are primarily fabrications used to divide and rule.
I wish Obama well - more than that I wish us all well. We deserve it for what we can become, what we truly are. Not monsters. Not demons. Not 'other.'
I won't forget the rocks thrown at my back with chants of 'dirty Jew,' but I won't return the fire. I won't forget my 'black MaMa' being denied entry to a party thrown for the LaMaMa Troupe after a show, but we just walked out, we didn't lob a grenade. I won't forget a friend of my cousin, shot for trying to register black voters in Mississipi, but I continued to march for civil rights to add my tiny voice to a growing scream for real democracy. I won't forget my Befriending Assignment for The Samaritans: she was a Coptic Egyptian Catholic in her mid-80s and I suppose we disagreed about all the abstracts of politics and religion, but we found the commonality we shared as people.
Love won't stop a bullet, but it is, in the end, far more powerful.
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 01/22/2009 11:06:42 |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 11:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Well, here's an interesting tribute to Barak Obama.
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 11:53:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BiggerBoat
"Come the f*ck in or f*ck the f*ck off."
I'd never heard of the programme or the quotation before, but that's enough to make me want to see it. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 12:12:35
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I was fairly flippant before because (i) I don't see the pomp and ceremony of the inauguration as anywhere near as momentous as election night itself and (ii) MguyX was being a little bit too much of a fanboy. However, I was later very moved by it via a rather unlikely source. I was watching Celebrity Big Brother  (which features three Americans -- Coolio, La Toya Jackson and Verne Troyer). They (very unusually) showed the inauguration to them (I was right that Obama made a meal of it too) and Coolio and La Toya had also been talking about it in the Diary Room earler. Coolio was so affected by it (in contrast to his general persona) that I had tears streaming down my own face. It wasn't because of any particular liking or respect that I have for him, but just that it's so far removed from what must have seemed likely when he was a poor black child in the late 1960s.
I also found out from this (as I didn't watch the whole speech) that Obama mentioned non-believers, so I'm very pleased about that, especially as I have heard very firmly that he said that America was not religious enough(!). I loathe when politicians et al lamely say "people of all faiths". It's only in recent years and still not generally that they have started to add "or none". |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 12:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
I loathe when politicians et al lamely say "people of all faiths". It's only in recent years and still not generally that they have started to add "or none".
Every one has faith. Currently I'm displaying the faith I have in the structural integrity of my chair by sitting in it.
The bigger question is what or who is the object of your faith. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 13:08:43
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| Yeah, yeah, but that kind of faith is a non-countable noun. We all know that when they say the above they mean "people of all religions". |
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BiggerBoat 
"Pass me the harpoon"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 13:28:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by BiggerBoat
"Come the f*ck in or f*ck the f*ck off."
I'd never heard of the programme or the quotation before, but that's enough to make me want to see it.
Yeah, it was in the news for a while because it starred Chris Langham - until he was found to have child porn images on his computer and they decided he wasn't allowed to still be in it whilst serving time in prison. But it's actually as good, if not better, without him. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/22/2009 : 15:07:52
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I'm currently in the interval of a film and a couple have so far talked quite loudly all the way through. I'm trying to build up the nerve to say "Would you please shut the fuck up or fuck the fuck off?"! Now that it's the intermission, they are whispering, of course.  |
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RIP - The George W. Bush Era
