| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| TitanPa |
Posted - 11/21/2006 : 17:04:00
Seems like Kramer went off the deep end. Is he going way of Mel Gibson?
Kramer's Antics
|
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| randall |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 19:28:55
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
Yeah, but Don Rickles fits the story particularly well. Don doing that delivery is perfect. 
Mguy, do you remember the scene in MY FAVORITE YEAR, in the Stork Club, where the handsome older guy asks O'Toole if he'll stop by and say hi to his wife? The first time I saw that movie, all I could think of was your Sinatra joke: would they have the guts?
P.S.: They didn't. |
| Sludge |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 16:47:32
quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
quote:
Originally posted by TitanPa
Seems like Kramer went off the deep end. Is he going way of Mel Gibson?
Nope, Mel's antics have already been forgiven - or forgotten - by most of the public. Eventually, he'll get right back to where he was before. Richards's career, however, is now over. Insulting Jews gets you in temporary hot water. Insulting blacks is a career third rail. He's untouchable now.
Nontheless... |
| MguyXXVI |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 18:33:45
Yeah, but Don Rickles fits the story particularly well. Don doing that delivery is perfect. |
| randall |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 14:51:34
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
Here's a little Don Rickles lore.
Don was playing Las Vegas back in the fifties and had his family out for dinner, including his in-laws. Frank Sinatra enters the restaurant and gets ushered over to a choice table. Don, a frind of Frank's, walks over to Sinatra and begs him to come over to his table a little later and introduce himself, as the in-laws were sure to get a big thrill from this. Sinatra agrees, and Don goes back to his big family gathering. A little while later, Sinatra comes over to the Rickles table and starts to introduce himself when Don abruptly cuts him off and says, "Frankie! Hey! We're trying to eat here!"
That one's like "The Aristocrats," an oldie but goodie joke, attributed over the years to dozens of people -- sometimes the instigator isn't even famous but, say, he's rich, or a mobster -- but it's still funny as hell...
EDIT: I've also heard the punch line as "Fuck off, Frank: we're eatin' here!" That chills you and makes you laugh, that someone could actually say that to Sinatra! |
| GHcool |
Posted - 11/26/2006 : 07:04:48
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
BTW: Here's your opportunity to vote for the review that started it all -- the real reason Kramer lost it!
Its also a good opportunity to vote for this great tribute review by noncentz. |
| MguyXXVI |
Posted - 11/25/2006 : 23:41:42
BTW: Here's your opportunity to vote for the review that started it all -- the real reason Kramer lost it! |
| Sean |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 20:33:24
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
I think you misunderstand me. What I'm saying is that it is apparent to me that Richards wasn't in tune with his audience that night, and therefore couldn't react as a comedian. With his experience and (apparent) comedic ability, that says to me that something wasn't right - with him. I seriously wonder if he would have had a good set even if they hadn't heckled him. Again, for someone as professional as Richards, the whole incident sounds like a cry for help.
So I suppose the key issue is, was he trying to be funny or not? I suspect not. If Billy Connolly abuses an audience member it's always supposed to be funny, so it is funny. Same with Spike Milligan's "grovelling little shit" line, or Monty Python's song about niggers etc etc. The intent is everything. |
| Whippersnapper. |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 19:51:44
KKKramer.  |
| tortoise |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 17:39:25
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
Here's a little Don Rickles lore.
Don was playing Las Vegas back in the fifties and had his family out for dinner, including his in-laws. Frank Sinatra enters the restaurant and gets ushered over to a choice table. Don, a frind of Frank's, walks over to Sinatra and begs him to come over to his table a little later and introduce himself, as the in-laws were sure to get a big thrill from this. Sinatra agrees, and Don goes back to his big family gathering. A little while later, Sinatra comes over to the Rickles table and starts to introduce himself when Don abruptly cuts him off and says, "Frankie! Hey! We're trying to eat here!"
Interesting... I remember hearing the exact same anecdote about the vile Robert Maxwell. Can't remember the celebrity, though.
I got to thinking about how MR must feel now about his career-killing response to those hecklers. And I decided... I bet Kramer wince.
I'll get my coat. |
| MguyXXVI |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 17:12:24
Here's a little Don Rickles lore.
Don was playing Las Vegas back in the fifties and had his family out for dinner, including his in-laws. Frank Sinatra enters the restaurant and gets ushered over to a choice table. Don, a frind of Frank's, walks over to Sinatra and begs him to come over to his table a little later and introduce himself, as the in-laws were sure to get a big thrill from this. Sinatra agrees, and Don goes back to his big family gathering. A little while later, Sinatra comes over to the Rickles table and starts to introduce himself when Don abruptly cuts him off and says, "Frankie! Hey! We're trying to eat here!"
|
| benj clews |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 11:29:32
Okey doke... gotcha' now |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 11:23:00
I think you misunderstand me. What I'm saying is that it is apparent to me that Richards wasn't in tune with his audience that night, and therefore couldn't react as a comedian. With his experience and (apparent) comedic ability, that says to me that something wasn't right - with him. I seriously wonder if he would have had a good set even if they hadn't heckled him. Again, for someone as professional as Richards, the whole incident sounds like a cry for help.
|
| benj clews |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 10:56:13
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
In this, I agree with Sean's view of Billy Connolly. Not only does he know his audiences, they know him as well. And yes, knowing your audience is very important. But they also know the comedians. So when a comedian - like Richards - strays from what they are, and ignores what the audience is looking for, that's a recipe for flopping.
Certainly, well-known comedians come with a lot of baggage that they can trade on, but a good comedian should be able to quickly establish their character to any audience regardless of familiarity (this experience comes from years of gigging as a nobody). In this way, it doesn't matter what the audience knows of you beforehand- it only matters what they know of you after the first joke.
Richards, of course, isn't Kramer. The audience may or may not have been expecting this, but if whatever character he was playing is funny, they won't care. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 11/24/2006 : 06:23:09
Well, before Benj accidentially locked this thread, I was going to bring up Don Rickles, the comedian who made insult comedy into an art form. He could go into rage tirades that would have you rolling on the floor. Mind you, I remember seeing him flop when an insult went the wrong way, but he knew how to get out of that - mostly by begging forgiveness and then trying a different insult route, as an aside. He knew his audience and - more importantly - they knew him.
In this, I agree with Sean's view of Billy Connolly. Not only does he know his audiences, they know him as well. And yes, knowing your audience is very important. But they also know the comedians. So when a comedian - like Richards - strays from what they are, and ignores what the audience is looking for, that's a recipe for flopping.
|
| Sean |
Posted - 11/23/2006 : 22:26:07
quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
quote:
quote:
Another insane comedy genius to add to the roster is Spike Milligan (even in one of his moments of clarity, he called our future King a "grovelling little shit" on live television).
HEhehe... oops!
I guess I should have mentioned here that this statement wasn't made in error. Right to the end, Milligan seemed to have a razor-sharp wit and this was just an example of a perfectly judged put-down.
With the wrong audience this could have been absolute suicide, but it would seem that in comedy with the biggest risks come the biggest pay-offs and that one comment brought the house down. If there weren't further evidence to the contrary, you could almost believe this is what Richards was aiming for. I've no doubt that, somewhere, there is an audience that would have lapped up his riffing.
Sadly for him, The Laugh Factory in LA isn't it.
I think that's the key to good stand-up:- detecting what the audience want and how far you can push them (i.e., what you can get away with). I suppose that requires extreme sensitivity to the audience, and the ability to instantly change your approach when required and steer away from something that wasn't working, and channel razor sharp wit in the right direction. I think people who can do this are few and far between.
I've always thought Billy Connolly was the master of this. I.e., everything he says or does on stage is a reaction to the way the audience reacted to the last thing he said or did. |
|
|
