| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| turrell |
Posted - 07/04/2007 : 19:28:11
Even the English should be happy we stood up and said that's way too much for a cup of tea. After all Britney Spears, Tom Green er I mean Pauly Shore, Ru Paul - the list goes on of our contributions to the arts not to mention Mircosoft, Exxon, and Enron - stalwarts of fair commerce. And who could forget our contribution to political though with that guy from Bedtime for bonzo, the terminator and Jesse "the Body" Ventura. And we also invented the Twinkee - imagine if we were still being strapped with all those taxes on cream filling. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Beanmimo |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 17:34:01
Yes much belated Happy Birthday Uncle Sam and all his nieces and nephews.
Throughout the hundred and fifty years after American Independence an approximation of 1,000,000 irish men and women escaped the poverty and disease ridden land that was Ireland (many went to Canada, UK and Australia as well).
So Ireland has a part to play in the building up of your country (especially the east coast of course).
This was repaid no more so by Bill Clinton with his role in the Northern Ireland Peace Process and the amount of foreign investment throughout the nineties that created the Celtic Tiger. (The German Mark amongst other ecomonic influences are not to be ignored either)
AND STILL people here gripe about the Americans and how hollow the country is, how unfriendly we have become.
Is it better than 1992 when we had the secon highest umenployment rate in the eu of 17.8% and people were still leaving for the States (my two brothers included). Today unemployment is 4%
The older generation are giving out that the Irish don't knoe what it's like to live through a recession and they should be careful. So what they are saying is that they want their children to go without luxuries because they did. This is a little unfair. Take it while you can.
Now the abuse of this with borrowing at it's highest will burn a few but they will learn their lesson. So be it. They have been warned.
So thanks America for helping to giving us a little wealth!!
|
| randall |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 13:42:06
Sorry I missed the online festivities. Yep, the US is certainly a convenient punching bag for those from other climes [especially with a clown and bully presently at the helm], but there are plenty of glass houses out there too. For all its faults, I'm glad I'm an American every single day. |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 06:44:28
quote:
Originally posted by duh
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Let's not even mention things like instant messaging, voice mail, SMS messaging, and much, much more.
Israelis are talkative? 
You got that right, seriously. Israelis have one of the highest numbers of cell phones per capita in the world. And of course, ICQ, SMS, Voice Mail, and a large portion of the technology for our precious cell phones were all invented here.
|
| duh |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 18:00:58
quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Let's not even mention things like instant messaging, voice mail, SMS messaging, and much, much more.
Israelis are talkative? |
| ChocolateLady |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 17:07:04
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
b) Made a lot of useful software that I use and couldn't imagine living without 
Hm... I wonder just how much of that software was actually developed in Israel for US companies or were just sold to US companies for distribution?
(For instance, that PC of yours probably has an Intel chip inside it. If so, that chip was developed for them by their Israeli employees at their Israeli plant. Let's not even mention things like instant messaging, voice mail, SMS messaging, and much, much more.)
|
| duh |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 16:07:40
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
And in the interim, the USA has:-
a) Made a lot of good movies (and a lot of crap ones, but I don't care as I don't watch them  )
b) Made a lot of useful software that I use and couldn't imagine living without
c) Put Paris Hilton in jail 
and prior to 2000
a) Produced the best painter ever (Jackson Pollock)
b) Invented the PC
c) Helped stop the spread of evil in Kosovo
etc etc. 
And among the things New Zealand has given us
a) Ernest Rutherford
b) Kiri Te Kanawa
c) Peter Jackson
d) and one damn fine Four Word Film Reviewer |
| Sean |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 11:54:49
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
On a closer re-reading, I see I misunderstood what was being said, so please accept my apologies.  
Hey, no worries.
I tend to keep my thoughts on Africa to myself (if possible), as I went there as an optimist and left three years later as a pessimist. 
If I criticise the USA it tends to be restricted to:-
a) Iraq catastrophe 
b) Guantanamo evil and hypocrisy
c) Those who had the opportunity to remove an incompetent and dangerous liar from office and didn't
and that's about it. I can't think of anything else that's worthy of a mention. Note that those three issues are post-2000. And in the interim, the USA has:-
a) Made a lot of good movies (and a lot of crap ones, but I don't care as I don't watch them )
b) Made a lot of useful software that I use and couldn't imagine living without
c) Put Paris Hilton in jail
and prior to 2000
a) Produced the best painter ever (Jackson Pollock)
b) Invented the PC
c) Helped stop the spread of evil in Kosovo
etc etc. |
| GHcool |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 07:55:27
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Sorry, GHcool, but I don't recall criticising the USA for anything that it has done or not done in Darfur.  Unless I wrote something in my sleep that I've totally forgotten about. Are you imagining something or have I forgotten something?
Just to make it clear: I have no criticism whatsoever for the USA (or anyone else) for refusing to do anything about Darfur.
Hmmm. Upon reading the chain of postings and responses, it looks like I must have misinterpreted something. I assumed that when you agreed with Conan's statement that "The Coalition of the Willing should be renamed the Coalition of the Willing to be Blamed for Everything," by responding, "No, only the things that they do that are wrong," I thought you were also agreeing with his statement that "No matter what it does the US gets criticised. ... if it holds back in Darfur it's ignoring a humanitarian crisis." I interpreted your agreement with Conan's statement as saying, "Yes, the U.S. deserves the criticism it is getting because it's ignoring a humanitarian crisis." On a closer rereading, I see I misunderstood what was being said, so please accept my appologies. |
| Sean |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 05:59:59
Sorry, GHcool, but I don't recall criticising the USA for anything that it has done or not done in Darfur. Unless I wrote something in my sleep that I've totally forgotten about. Are you imagining something or have I forgotten something?
Just to make it clear: I have no criticism whatsoever for the USA (or anyone else) for refusing to do anything about Darfur. |
| GHcool |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 05:00:30
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
The Coalition of the Willing should be renamed the Coalition of the Willing to be Blamed for Everything.
No, only the things that they do that are wrong. Which is quite a lot.
The U.S. might not be doing as much as they should in Darfur, but haven't heard about New Zealanders taking action either.
I lived in that part of the world for a few years. My recommendations for Darfur? One of these:-
a) Invade and occupy for a couple of centuries "until the job is done" (cf. Iraq), or,
b) Do nothing
Three two one guess(es) which I think is the right move. Depressing? Yep.
Sean's conclusion doesn't follow from your premises:
(1) If the United States "does nothing" with reference to the genocide in Darfur, then, in Sean's opinion, the United States does not deserve criticism on this issue.
(2) The United States is doing nothing with reference to the genocide in Darfur.
Therefore, (3) in Sean's opinion, the United States does not deserve criticism.
Somehow, out of these premises, Sean got the conclusion that the United States does deserve criticism on this issue. Personally, I agree with this conclusion, but only because I do not accept Sean's premises (and, evidently, neither does Sean). |
| Sean |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 23:34:21
A and a  to BiggerBoat's hilarious comments in red. I thought about doing something like that, but BB did it about a million times better than I could. |
| duh |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 16:10:31
I love my home. I am happy. I get to see beauty every day. I am grateful. |
| BiggerBoat |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 14:44:44
quote:
Originally posted by Stalean
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
quote:
Originally posted by Stalean
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
Some of us waited until we weren't wanted anymore.
And, your better off for it, too!
That's highly debatable. 
I was trying to be humorous, but once again it is insinuated that America is a place to be abhorred, and no less by an American. I give you an article that truly hits home, in America, for me:
America Bashing Is Ridiculous
Prejudice against U.S.A. overlooks problems elsewhere in the world
Bright B. Simons
Published 2006-10-19 11:26 (KST)
Nothing suits the mood better in polite company these days than to bash America Where? Where does this guy live? Qualify yourself.. But come to think of it more critically, there never really was a time when bashing the big, nasty U S of A was not fashionable. Yes there was.
Shelves in bookstores all over the world groan under the weight of monographs, editorial articles and journal papers with titles like: "Why Do They Hate Us So Much?" These earnest publications with their hints and hues of moral melodrama have become compulsory reading for the socialites of our time, in Europe especially, but also in high societies everywhere. That's right - all the books in the world are about America.
To fit in, one must be able to list America's sins offhand from memory, reciting them like juicy one-liners during elegant conversation over chops and fine Chianti.
The order of recitation is often a matter of personal choice, but a typical one will proceed thus. The Ku Klux Klan, segregation in the South, the quarantine of Americans of Japanese descent during the Second World War, Hiroshima, Vietnam, the invasions of Panama and Granada, the Bay of Pigs fiasco -- in which Federal Agencies colluded with the Mafia -- in Cuba, coddling to Middle East dictators, assassinating or orchestrating the overthrow of third world leaders who wouldn't bend, from Nkrumah and Lumumba to Mossadegh and Noriega... Yes, okay, all these things were bad and don't look good on the CV. Go on.
A slight pause at this juncture is always helpful, to allow a sampling of the souffles and or the sorbet, after which the narration resumes. Guantanamo Like an off-shore bank account, except it's a prison. , Iraq I and II 100,000 dead and counting folks!, the mess in Latin America as a result of the War on Drugs But you won that war, right? , secret CIA prisons No this one's okay - you set up prisons all over the world if you want - that's your right., Abu Ghraib Hey! They were kids, they were just mucking aroud, they pissed on the Koran as a joke, why does no one get that??...and...well, the list being endless, a slight cough at this point will usually signal to the Society Hostess to gently steer the topic of conversation to less distressing subjects, perhaps to the tenderness of the Maitre d's recommended sirloin. What were we thinking, banging on about such boring subjects? Small talk is so much more stimulating.
America-bashing rocks! I sense a retaliation coming on...
I recall a conversation I had three years ago in a leafy enclave of North London with a number of impressively highly-educated Somalian gentlemen or so I thought.... I had inquired after the cause of the resumed shelling of Mogadishu after a much applauded lull, and was bracing myself for a complex recounting of fratricidal clan on clan antagonism.
Instead I got: "America" from the most elderly chap in the group. Startled I asked for elaboration. "There is an abundance of fish stocks in Somalia's coastal waters," my respondent articulated in an elegant upper class brogue. I sat lost for words, staring blankly at the speaker as he reclined gracefully in his cane chair, with all the contentment of one who knows his assertion is self-evident and the matter settled. Silly me! Of course I should have known! Wherever there is fish to steal: trust the Americans to wade in! No, silly, he didn't say that America causes wars everywhere in order to steal fish. Just in Somalia.
In all seriousness, I think all this refined "anti-Americanism" is becoming ridiculous. Consider the current brouhaha over North Korea's nuclear test. Laughter forces tears into my eyes when I hear some of the arguments making the rounds in supposedly informed circles seeking to lay the blame at America's doorsteps. That is one funny joke, admittedly.
Americans shouldn't have antagonized North Korea, they say. Excuse me, but the folks who gave the wretched bomb to North Korea -- Russia and China The reds.-- are right there ensconced at the Security Council even as we speak, going through the motions of passing judgment on a regime they have armed What? A powerful regime arming another state? Surely that has never gone on anywhere??, sustained and urged on for decades Damned underground commies., including, in the case of China, furnishing it with an ironclad security guarantee. Let's stick to the facts Oh thank God, I thought we were ignoring those things.: North Korea needs not feel antagonized: China says if anyone dares to lay even a finger on her she will dash to her rescue with every mean ICBM it has got. This is a commitment that has lasted over four decades, what more guarantees does Kim Jong Il want? Yes, I don't know if you can qualify that as a fact, it's more of a supposition, especially if you don't qualify it.
So China supplies the DPRK with the capabilities to develop a horrible weapon Fact!, watch her build it Fact!, just right across the border, and assures her at every stage that she has nothing to worry because no one will dare come even dream of attacking them Fact!, and now it is America's fault? No, probaby not, you do seem to be the most pissed off about it though.
Presumably, it is also America's fault that South Africa built the big bomb? No, stop being so dramatic. Of course, the U.S. joined in a frail attempt to isolate Apartheid Pretoria, so probably yes. Is it also America's fault that Pakistan has the bomb? Seeing as you invented it, you could say it's your fault that anyone has got it, if you put it like that. Why does the U.S. allow so many talented Indians into Silicon Valley knowing full well that India and Pakistan have come to the brink of war several times? Of course it is the big U S of A's fault. Again with the drama, just calm down okay.
Does it count for anything that amongst the great powers, the U.S.A. has been the most scrupulous in preventing nuclear material from falling into the wrong hands? Cuz the rest of us are just giving our secrets away, we're bad like thatDo you reckon that Israel, despite its powerful lobby in Washington and obvious need of a security shield, would have had to steal its technology from all over the place, if it had not been an ally of the USA but rather a vassal of the Kremlin? Who's to say? Maybe there would be peace there now, maybe everyone would be dead, maybe the sky would be orange.
Yet even Americans have been converted by the relentless barrage from a clueless international media Yeah, they're all so wrong, all the time. into believing that whether bad folks get the bomb or not depends on partisan politics in Washington ("it is Clinton," "no, it is Bush.") Who can blame them? They say Who? People in mental homes? if somebody said to you every breakfast that airplanes run on plum juice, sooner or later you will end up believing it.
It is the same with ridiculous analyses. The more we hear it, the more insensate we grow to its ridiculousness. But why do we hear so much ridiculous stuff being said of the U.S.A., anyway? Tell us!
I will venture an opinion. In one word: overexamination But, but, you're writing an article about it.. Let us frankly admit it, how many of us really know much about what is going on in other countries? We know what's reported by the media. Yet we are all experts about America, because even "domestic" U.S. news is global news, by only mild extension.
So we know that the U.S. ignores Kyoto (some U.S. States observe it, but what does that matter), but not that Iceland defies international moratoriums on whale-hunting The act that may in the long-run save the world, versus a country that has always eaten whale meat and has been told to stop by everyone else. Hmm, which is worse...hmmm...I'm not sure, come back to me on this one.. We know that the U.S. maintains capital punishment in its penal regime (28 states have either abolished it or imposed significant restrictions, but what does that matter) but not that Japan similarly does the same But we will stop doing it if everyone else does, how's that for a deal?. We are worried sick that the U.S. is "occupying" Iraq but don't care a jot about China's occupation of Tibet Yeah, loads of people are "occupying", even Israel, our buddies, so why pick on us??. We lament U.S. anti-terror bills, but couldn't be bothered to write in protest about recently passed laws in China authorizing the country's army to invade Taiwan if the latter "declares independence." And it doesn't matter one bit that this law is just about as sane as Mexico promulgating a bill urging reunification with Texas by force. Ha! Ludicrous! (This hasn't happened has it?)
We gloat about America's "harebrained scheme" to introduce democracy into Afghanistan err, because it's working??but wouldn't even curl a lip if we read about Britain's efforts in Sierra Leone, where "democracy" is similarly merely a vision kept on the horizon by arms. Look, look Miss, Britain are doing it too, and they didn't even give the world Coca-Cola.
We know that minorities constitute less than 40 percent of Harvard University's undergraduate student profile, and consequently scoff at America's claims of being a beacon of social justice and democracy. We of course know nothing about black minorities being barred from universities in Mauritania or of Iranian Jews being constitutionally prevented from working in the Civil Service. Racism? A world problem? I thought you only found racists in America? I am surprised.
We know about the underrepresentation of minorities amongst national elites in America because scores of studies have been conducted in which the issue has been highlighted, but we cannot know that the situation is much worse in, say, Oxford, Cambridge or in many of France's Grand Ecoles. I think that's what minority means - there's not many of them.
When London's Socialist Mayor rantsHe doesn't rant, he's the most laid-back guy you could imagine. But he IS a damned socialist. in anger about U.S. Diplomats refusing to pay for clocked-up road tolls, he justifies his umbrage by saying that though many other embassies are similarly guilty, America's backlog of charges is "by far the greatest."Yes, you owe us a lot of money, can you pay up please? He naturally refuses to mention that the U.S. embassy in Grosvenor Square is also by far the largest, with the largest fleet of cars, and consequently that American diplomats, apart from racking up toll charges, also pumps more into the city economy than any other delegation. Well, actually, in that incredibly posh neighbourhood, residents have seen their house prices fall by millions of pounds because of their proximity to the American embassy. Fact!
It is thus by putting a magnifying glass on America, while the darkened backdrop of the rest of the world provides contrast, that we illuminate the sins of America, and project them onto the screen of righteous indignation. Picture the scene - dazzingly bright America, and the evil darkness surrounding it.
But I will argue that by so-doing we also highlight America's "exceptionalism." We imply that America is indeed "different from the rest of us." In the words of Socrates: "the unexamined life can not lay claim to nobility." We proclaim America's uniqueness by our neurotic attention, and justify a "primacy by default." yeah, you're number 1, and don't you let us forget it!
But if you doubt the veracity of this, look closely at America itself. Where else can illegal migrants stage mass protests in the open?Pretty much any first world country, and a few second-world ones. Next question. Why will they do that if they did not believe that America is the world's commonwealth? Err, because you've got lots of money where many countries don't? How may such a protest come about except in the conviction that America belongs to the world Get outta here!; that America is in the world Whoa, you're blowing my mind dude. and the world in America?Deep, man! And therefore that all who intrude upon her shores do not intrude but merely heed the call of her great monument to liberty in New York Harbor. Ah, they hear the sirens calling.
Do you seriously reckon that such a spectacle will fit into the landscapes of Japan, China or Russia? Yeah, could do. Especially if on a hillside overlooking a city, like that Jesus statue in RIo. Wait! I meant no. No, it would look rubbish everywhere except where it is.Do you believe that the draw of citizenship has the same romantic allure in Europe Unbelieveably, we have migration issued too. Crazy, I know, but some people like to go to other countries that have more than their fair share of money. or elsewhere for "foreigners" as it does in the U.S.? Even when Switzerland refuses to naturalize third-generation migrants, and folks who have lived for fifty years in Germany still consider themselves Turkish? How dare they! Asssimilate, assimilate, resistance is futile. We must homogenise society. Even when South African police fights boredom by harassing legal Zimbabwean residents without provocation? Why haven't the red and white stripes, defenders of world justice done anything about Zimbabwe then. There's a despot who's killing his own people, why aren't you helping them? What? No resouces? No oil? What are you talking about? We need to free the people, make them free like Americans.
America is a microcosm of the world itself. This is evident in all its major institutions. Contrast Hollywood with, say, India's Bollywood and the French cinema industry. Consider the range of subject matter, the multiplicity of voices and faces and the cosmopolitan feel of its offerings; do you doubt that, far from riding on American power to force its values upon us, Hollywood succeeds because it, more so than either its European or East Asian opposites (who by the way rival her in terms of output and increasingly in terms of investment), reflects the diversity and plurality of the world? Yes, we should all just watch American films and learn about the world that way. The right way godammit.
In the slums of Kibera, Kenya and in the underbellies of Kinshasa, it is not Ravi Shankar or the Arctic Monkeys that the poor but hopeful look up to, for their daily inspiration. They look to the slums of America where they see blossoming a hip-hop culture that ministers strongly to their material despair and they rise up, and turn their baseball caps backward, and wish they were in America. The affluent classes may stub [sic] their noses, but for most ordinary folks around the world: America rules and reigns. Further details about the Project for a New American Century can be found on our website.
So we can ignore the fact the more wars in Africa have been caused by Qaddafi's oil money, rather than the CIA So, the CIA haven't caused all the wars in Africa? That is quite some fact.; neglect to berate the Arab League and China for shielding the Sudanese Government from the sort of pressure that may relieve the genocide in Darfur Maybe you should.; blind our eyes to Russia's bullying in the Caucasus ooh, one bully ignoring another, how brave of you.; and refuse to be morally outraged by the horrible treatment being dished out to Indian and Pakistani immigrants in the Gulf States And in Guantanamo Bay.
We can continue to expend all our attention on America's ills; but until any of those lining up to rule the world -- China, Japan, the E.U. etc -- show by self-evident demonstration that they reflect the world better, project its aspirations, and of course its failings, with greater fidelity, the world order will never alter for the better. At best, a medieval free-for-all will ensue. That's right, us 'old' countries are medieval throwbacks, how could we ever hope to RULE THE WORLD. Wait, do we have to have someone ruling the world? can't we all just be friends?
Or then again, America may throw away its true strength. It may become complacent about the power of its "exceptionalism" and become mediocre, just like the rest of us. Yeah, we're all so mediocre in so many ways and America is just great, woo-hoo! When that happens, perhaps, a change in the world order may be warranted. But until that happens, and for all our sakes, God bless America. Last scene: America lights a cigarette and gazes wistfully into the distance, wondering why all those other nations couldn't see sense. What was wwrong with them? Didn't they understand that you've got to break a few eggs to make an omlette? But now they know that we were right all along. America downs a coke, winks at camera, turns and walks into the sunset. The End.
�2006 OhmyNews
So, when you (not you in particular, GHC) want to jump on the America-bashing bandwagon, think about all the truly exceptional freedoms there are here--in America. God Bless My Country--Good Ol' U S of A.
Bright B. Simons is not American, nor was he born here.
|
| Sean |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 09:53:23
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
I find the UN escapes most of the negative publicity the US receives despite its many flaws. Perhaps doing stuff all is a better option after all. 
I think the Western World as a whole (UN, USA, UK, EU etc etc) needs to accept the limits of it's power. Some parts of the West are better at accepting this than others. I'd suggest the UN as a body is more realistic in accepting it's limitations than the USA, hence the greater criticism directed at the USA.
Overwhelming military superiority gives one the power to quickly destroy a 'troublesome' regime by killing people and destroying infrastructure, but it doesn't qualify one to 'build a new society' overnight. Koffi Annan knew this, Bush didn't.
One only needs to look at places like Wiluna in Western Australia to note that 200+ years after the 'invasion' by a 'modernising' power there are segments of the invaded culture that have yet to adjust to the ways of the invader. The position by some that post-Western-invasion Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia etc would be populated by smiling happy people holding hands and become shining pinnacles of prosperity in a consumerist democratic utopia was hopelessly ignorant. (It sounds like I'm being sarcastic here, but I heard people suggest something like this.)
Sure, hope is a nice thing, but if hope is ill founded and causes one to make incorrect decisions then the consquences can be disastrous. Realism is a better option, and may sometimes cause one to stand back and let a problem sort itself out, a position the UN sometimes takes, which opens it up to criticism for it's perceived impotence. The criticism levelled at the Bush-administered US for it's monumental foreign policy failures (a result of ignorance and ill-founded hope) is equal to the criticism directed at the UN by the US for it's refusal to participate in such failures.
P.S. NATO gets nothing but praise from me for it's Kosovo operation. Preventing the spread of absolute evil was the right move IMO, a job that was successful IMO as it was achieved largely through destruction of infrastructure - 'colonisation and modernisation' wasn't necessary. |
| Conan The Westy |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 08:22:50
I find the UN escapes most of the negative publicity the US receives despite its many flaws. Perhaps doing stuff all is a better option after all. |
|
|
