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benj clews 
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 Posted - 11/23/2006 : 13:20:32
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Originally posted by ChocolateLady
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Originally posted by benj clews
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Originally posted by ChocolateLady
Of all these amazing comedians we're mentioning, I don't see any who were really as instable as Richards seems to be, and yet, they're all truly great comedians. The only comic genius I can think of who was very off-kilter off stage (who hasn't been mentioned yet) would be Andy Kaufman.
I'm not sure how insane you can say Richards is based purely on one performance.
A lot of people do very stupid things in their lives and a lot of people can get far too carried away in the moment (especially some performers), but I wouldn't say this is enough to clarify them as unstable or insane. Certainly, I've been so pissed off about things in my life at some times that I've said and done things I wouldn't dream of saying or doing in a rational state of mind. Some of these may even be classed as racist, sexist or any manner of things and I'm pretty certain I don't believe any of them, but in the heat of the moment sometimes anything goes.
Unfortunately, Richards is famous and he lost his rag on stage, in public and on film. Luckily, I'm unfamous, few people probably heard me on any of these occaisions and I'll probably never see any of them again anyway.
Not one performance, I'm afraid. I've seen him in interviews and there's something just not right about him. I'd also so that as comic as his character Kramer was to most people, I found it to be disturbing. His outburst could have been a "heat of the moment" thing. But his demeanor during his subsequent apology for it indicated something deeper than that. Blame my suspicions on my psychiatrist mother-in-law and social worker boss and their long-term influence on me, but that's what I felt.
He always came across as pretty intelligent and surprisingly serious in the Seinfeld DVD interviews, so this is quite surprising for me. Ah well... I still love the Kramer character 
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Another insane comedy genius to add to the roster is Spike Milligan (even in one of his moments of clarity, he called our future King a "grovelling little shit" on live television).
HEhehe... oops!
I guess I should have mentioned here that this statement wasn't made in error. Right to the end, Milligan seemed to have a razor-sharp wit and this was just an example of a perfectly judged put-down.
With the wrong audience this could have been absolute suicide, but it would seem that in comedy with the biggest risks come the biggest pay-offs and that one comment brought the house down. If there weren't further evidence to the contrary, you could almost believe this is what Richards was aiming for. I've no doubt that, somewhere, there is an audience that would have lapped up his riffing.
Sadly for him, The Laugh Factory in LA isn't it. |
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 11/23/2006 : 17:39:38
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Just posting something here so benj doesn't feel he went to the trouble of unlocking this thread for nothing. 
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a football game to watch and a bird to devour. |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 11/23/2006 : 18:06:01
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Originally posted by lemmycaution
Great physical comedian? W.C.Fields. He started out as a juggler.
Yeah, but he dropped the act. 
God, I am sooo witty sometimes.  |
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w22dheartlivie 
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 11/23/2006 : 19:22:04
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And as for Robin Williams - he himself admits to substance abuse and some mental problems at one point (I believe it was depression).
Hm....
Actually, I think he is bipolar, which I always was sure of long before he ever spoke about it. He seems to be better than in the 80s, but he still verges on mania at times (re: last weekend's Comic Relief for Katrina). |
Edited by - w22dheartlivie on 11/23/2006 19:22:39 |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 11/23/2006 : 22:26:07
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Originally posted by benj clews
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Another insane comedy genius to add to the roster is Spike Milligan (even in one of his moments of clarity, he called our future King a "grovelling little shit" on live television).
HEhehe... oops!
I guess I should have mentioned here that this statement wasn't made in error. Right to the end, Milligan seemed to have a razor-sharp wit and this was just an example of a perfectly judged put-down.
With the wrong audience this could have been absolute suicide, but it would seem that in comedy with the biggest risks come the biggest pay-offs and that one comment brought the house down. If there weren't further evidence to the contrary, you could almost believe this is what Richards was aiming for. I've no doubt that, somewhere, there is an audience that would have lapped up his riffing.
Sadly for him, The Laugh Factory in LA isn't it.
I think that's the key to good stand-up:- detecting what the audience want and how far you can push them (i.e., what you can get away with). I suppose that requires extreme sensitivity to the audience, and the ability to instantly change your approach when required and steer away from something that wasn't working, and channel razor sharp wit in the right direction. I think people who can do this are few and far between.
I've always thought Billy Connolly was the master of this. I.e., everything he says or does on stage is a reaction to the way the audience reacted to the last thing he said or did. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 06:23:09
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Well, before Benj accidentially locked this thread, I was going to bring up Don Rickles, the comedian who made insult comedy into an art form. He could go into rage tirades that would have you rolling on the floor. Mind you, I remember seeing him flop when an insult went the wrong way, but he knew how to get out of that - mostly by begging forgiveness and then trying a different insult route, as an aside. He knew his audience and - more importantly - they knew him.
In this, I agree with Sean's view of Billy Connolly. Not only does he know his audiences, they know him as well. And yes, knowing your audience is very important. But they also know the comedians. So when a comedian - like Richards - strays from what they are, and ignores what the audience is looking for, that's a recipe for flopping.
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Edited by - ChocolateLady on 11/24/2006 06:45:26 |
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benj clews
"...."
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 10:56:13
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Originally posted by ChocolateLady
In this, I agree with Sean's view of Billy Connolly. Not only does he know his audiences, they know him as well. And yes, knowing your audience is very important. But they also know the comedians. So when a comedian - like Richards - strays from what they are, and ignores what the audience is looking for, that's a recipe for flopping.
Certainly, well-known comedians come with a lot of baggage that they can trade on, but a good comedian should be able to quickly establish their character to any audience regardless of familiarity (this experience comes from years of gigging as a nobody). In this way, it doesn't matter what the audience knows of you beforehand- it only matters what they know of you after the first joke.
Richards, of course, isn't Kramer. The audience may or may not have been expecting this, but if whatever character he was playing is funny, they won't care. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 11:23:00
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I think you misunderstand me. What I'm saying is that it is apparent to me that Richards wasn't in tune with his audience that night, and therefore couldn't react as a comedian. With his experience and (apparent) comedic ability, that says to me that something wasn't right - with him. I seriously wonder if he would have had a good set even if they hadn't heckled him. Again, for someone as professional as Richards, the whole incident sounds like a cry for help.
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benj clews
"...."
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 11:29:32
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| Okey doke... gotcha' now |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 17:12:24
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Here's a little Don Rickles lore.
Don was playing Las Vegas back in the fifties and had his family out for dinner, including his in-laws. Frank Sinatra enters the restaurant and gets ushered over to a choice table. Don, a frind of Frank's, walks over to Sinatra and begs him to come over to his table a little later and introduce himself, as the in-laws were sure to get a big thrill from this. Sinatra agrees, and Don goes back to his big family gathering. A little while later, Sinatra comes over to the Rickles table and starts to introduce himself when Don abruptly cuts him off and says, "Frankie! Hey! We're trying to eat here!"
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tortoise
"Still reviewing, but slowly."
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 17:39:25
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Originally posted by MguyX
Here's a little Don Rickles lore.
Don was playing Las Vegas back in the fifties and had his family out for dinner, including his in-laws. Frank Sinatra enters the restaurant and gets ushered over to a choice table. Don, a frind of Frank's, walks over to Sinatra and begs him to come over to his table a little later and introduce himself, as the in-laws were sure to get a big thrill from this. Sinatra agrees, and Don goes back to his big family gathering. A little while later, Sinatra comes over to the Rickles table and starts to introduce himself when Don abruptly cuts him off and says, "Frankie! Hey! We're trying to eat here!"
Interesting... I remember hearing the exact same anecdote about the vile Robert Maxwell. Can't remember the celebrity, though.
I got to thinking about how MR must feel now about his career-killing response to those hecklers. And I decided... I bet Kramer wince.
I'll get my coat. |
Edited by - tortoise on 11/24/2006 17:47:25 |
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Whippersnapper.
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 19:51:44
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| KKKramer. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 11/24/2006 : 20:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
I think you misunderstand me. What I'm saying is that it is apparent to me that Richards wasn't in tune with his audience that night, and therefore couldn't react as a comedian. With his experience and (apparent) comedic ability, that says to me that something wasn't right - with him. I seriously wonder if he would have had a good set even if they hadn't heckled him. Again, for someone as professional as Richards, the whole incident sounds like a cry for help.
So I suppose the key issue is, was he trying to be funny or not? I suspect not. If Billy Connolly abuses an audience member it's always supposed to be funny, so it is funny. Same with Spike Milligan's "grovelling little shit" line, or Monty Python's song about niggers etc etc. The intent is everything. |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 11/26/2006 : 07:04:48
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Originally posted by MguyX
BTW: Here's your opportunity to vote for the review that started it all -- the real reason Kramer lost it!
Its also a good opportunity to vote for this great tribute review by noncentz. |
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I Bet Kramer loses
