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Ali 
"Those aren't pillows."
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 Posted - 01/25/2007 : 10:50:37
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How can you say that? You've not only not seen Capote, but you are also empahtic that you will never do so. How can you compare Heath Ledger's perforomance with one you have no clue about?
Also, if you believe that a perfect physical match to the actual subject is the only criterion for judging actors playing parts based on real people, then you are definitely missing the point.
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Sal[Au]pian 
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:00:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
How can you say that? You've not only not seen Capote, but you are also empahtic that you will never do so. How can you compare Heath Ledger's perforomance with one you have no clue about?
Because of the point that I made above - that people made a big deal about how closely he matched Capote's demeanour, but this is clearly something that others can do just as well. Someone shouldn't get an Oscar for a performance that would be as good with another actor.
quote:
Also, if you believe that a perfect physical match to the actual subject is the only criterion for judging actors playing parts based on real people, then you are definitely missing the point.
I never said I thought this. It's just that Capote's shortness was a significant factor in his life. So, of two actors who portray his other characteristics equally well, one that also has that is preferable. |
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Ali
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:12:32
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quote:
that people made a big deal about how closely he matched Capote's demeanour
Sure, but that was not the only reason, and no one (at least no one of any intellectual significance) argued that the actor's aping of the character was the sole reason. Besides, Truman Capote has become an effete joke of a character in 20th (and now 21st) Century drama. The less emphasised that aspect, the better.
I have seen both films; and not only is Capote a far more accomplished film, but Hoffman is also the more talented actor, and his performace the obviously better one.
And I don't think he should have won the Oscar last year, either, but that's irrelevant to the subject at hand.
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Edited by - Ali on 01/25/2007 11:13:39 |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:28:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
I have seen both films; and not only is Capote a far more accomplished film, but Hoffman is also the more talented actor, and his performace the obviously better one.
Not obvious to me, and I've seen plenty of clips. Is the rest of Capote a much worse film then? They both have 7.something on the I.M.D.B., and more casual visitors to the site are likely to score a film more highly, while many scorers are also likely to rate the second film on the same subject matter lower than had it been first.
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And I don't think he should have won the Oscar last year, either, but that's irrelevant to the subject at hand.
Hardly. |
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Ali
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:34:28
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Of course it's not obvious to you: you haven't seen the film in question! Pedantry is great - I revel in it; but baseless pedantry is just frustrating. We seem to be on completely different wavelengths here, so I'll just let it go.
I don't pay attention to IMDB scores, by the way; and definitely don't have the time to analyse voting habbits. This is not only because the voters are generally uninformed plebs, but also because I am an elitist wanker. Can't have on without the other, I suppose.
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Edited by - Ali on 01/25/2007 11:57:46 |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:49:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
I don't pay attention to IMDB scores, by the way
I wouldn't necessarily do so either, but Sean is very clear that he finds them a highly reliable guide, and thus he bases his viewing on them and is rarely disappointed. It's such a strong endorsement that I trust it to be right. Common sense just dictates that some recent high-profile films will have slightly overly high scores. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:50:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
Of course it's not obvious to you: you haven't seen the film in question!
O.K., so is he better in all the parts that they did not show in any trailer or on any television programme? The film was all over the place last spring. |
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Ali
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:59:49
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It's just a better performance.
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 12:54:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali
It's just a better performance.
Just not in all those clips, apparently. |
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Ali
"Those aren't pillows."
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 13:01:16
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You can't get a sense of the overall performance in trailers. It isn't a wine tasting, you know?
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turrell
"Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh Ohhhh "
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Posted - 01/25/2007 : 19:16:38
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| Lets all agree that Salopian really, really enjoyed Brokeback Mountain. |
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Montgomery
"F**k!"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 00:05:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Philip Seymour Hoffman should definitely not have won Best Actor last year. Toby Jones has shown that portraying Truman Capote excellently is not such a unique feat. (As I said last year, copying a real person is not as hard as making a fictional person seem that real.) Heath Ledger should certainly have won instead.
Shouldn't this thread be in Film Related/General?
I can't agree with you there, Salop. Hoffman was incredible. Haven't seen the other performance, but remember, it wasn't around when he won. Heath was okay, but I felt like that Hallmark movie of the week got enough attention.
EM :) |
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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 05:20:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
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Originally posted by Montgomery
Oscar Worthy? Really? What was so great about what either actress did with those roles? I just thought they were "okay."
Then the Oscar should have gone to one of the others:-
1998 ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE
Cate Blanchett -- Elizabeth {"Queen Elizabeth I"}
Fernanda Montenegro -- Central Station {"Dora"}
* Gwyneth Paltrow -- Shakespeare in Love {"Viola De Lesseps"}
Meryl Streep -- One True Thing {"Kate Gulden"}
Emily Watson -- Hilary and Jackie {"Jacqueline du Pr�"}
I can't see anyone more deserving, although some of these I haven't seen. 
Cate Blanchett for 'Elizabeth' by a mile. What was challenging about Paltrow's role in SIL? That's what I would look for in a performance.
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 05:23:14
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
quote:
Originally posted by Rovark
BTW same year Tom Hanks won for Forrest Gump and Nigel Hawthorne didn't for The Madness Of King George.
I remember that one - Hawthorne was robbed!
Too right. The supporting actors made the Gump movie what it was, not just Hanks.
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 05:43:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Ali
It's just a better performance.
Just not in all those clips, apparently.
When you watch the film you see Hoffman potray Capote's downfall. He starts the film as the sarcastic, superficial socialite, and you slowly see the connection to the town and the murderers destroy him. Also portrayed is his jealousy and dismissivness of his best friend's (Harper Lee) success with to Kill a Mockingbird and his relationship with his long-term lover (pretty one-sided). After finishing In Cold Blood, Capote never completed anything again. He rode on the reputation of that book, and slowly drank himself to death. That's why it is not just a portrayal of a real person and is good acting. Hoffman creates the character from the situation in the film. There are scenes where he ad-libs. That is an indication of how much an actor has developed a character. I believe this is much more than 'mimicking'.
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Oscar Winners who shouldn't have.
