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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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 Posted - 01/26/2007 : 05:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by wildhartlivie
I've commented on it in other threads, but it bears repeating. Kevin Bacon may be one of the most overlooked actors working today. He's been nominated about a dozen times for awards from various film festivals, but never once nominated for major awards like the Academy Awards. He was nominated once for a Golden Globes for The River Wild.
Is it because Hollywood can't forgive him for Footloose, or The Air Up There,
Don't knock The Air Up There. I love that film, corny as it might be! Yes, Kevin Bacon and Dennis Quaid, very under-rated. But then Paul Newman didn't get an Oscar until The Color of Money, which was a pedestrian performance by his standards.
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w22dheartlivie 
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 07:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Not obvious to me, and I've seen plenty of clips. Is the rest of Capote a much worse film then? They both have 7.something on the I.M.D.B., and more casual visitors to the site are likely to score a film more highly, while many scorers are also likely to rate the second film on the same subject matter lower than had it been first.
I haven't seen Infamous though I'd like to, so I can't really weigh in with an opinion on his portrayal vs. Hoffman's, but personally, I thought Hoffman was pretty terrific in his Capote role. I have some issues with how IMDB arrives at their mysterious "weighted averages." One thing it does not appear to take into consideration is how frequently a person visits the site or votes, or which film was seen first. Chronological release doesn't always equate when it's viewed. I'm always much more interested in a straight average. What is more important statistically in arriving at an average is how large the voting pool is. Capote has over 15000 votes and a 7.8 weighted average, while Infamous has 503 and a 7.3 weighted average. That's likely to be a statistically significant difference. The larger the pool, the more likely it is that the average is an accurate figure. |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 07:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
quote:
Originally posted by wildhartlivie
I've commented on it in other threads, but it bears repeating. Kevin Bacon may be one of the most overlooked actors working today. He's been nominated about a dozen times for awards from various film festivals, but never once nominated for major awards like the Academy Awards. He was nominated once for a Golden Globes for The River Wild.
Is it because Hollywood can't forgive him for Footloose, or The Air Up There,
Don't knock The Air Up There. I love that film, corny as it might be! Yes, Kevin Bacon and Dennis Quaid, very under-rated. But then Paul Newman didn't get an Oscar until The Color of Money, which was a pedestrian performance by his standards.
I'm not really knocking The Air Up There, but a lot of people viewed it as a piece of fluff. Granted, an enjoyable piece of fluff, but not Oscar calibre. |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 07:33:34
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quote:
Originally posted by wildhartlivie
I have some issues with how IMDB arrives at their mysterious "weighted averages." One thing it does not appear to take into consideration is how frequently a person visits the site or votes, or which film was seen first.
I believe the amount of voting is taken into consideration. I suspect they remove voters whose vote levels are way off the scale, i.e, trolls who go through and rate all the good movies 1/10 and the garbage 10/10.quote:
Chronological release doesn't always equate when it's viewed. I'm always much more interested in a straight average.
If you click on the Vote Here tab it gives you a good break-down, i.e., median, mean, spread and age/sex breakdown. Although I guess you know this. I've found in the past I just use their front page score, it's the simplest way to decide whether I'll like a movie or not. I don't use it to decide that Movie X was better than Movie Y as it scored 7.5 vs 7.1.quote:
What is more important statistically in arriving at an average is how large the voting pool is. Capote has over 15000 votes and a 7.8 weighted average, while Infamous has 503 and a 7.3 weighted average. That's likely to be a statistically significant difference. The larger the pool, the more likely it is that the average is an accurate figure.
I agree. I've noticed that scores for new movies tend to drop with time. I'm guessing that this is because those who know they'll like a movie see it and score it first. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 09:39:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Montgomery
I can't agree with you there, Salop.
Don't call me 'Salop'. |
Edited by - Sal[Au]pian on 01/26/2007 10:13:24 |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 09:44:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
That's why it is not just a portrayal of a real person and is good acting. Hoffman creates the character from the situation in the film. There are scenes where he ad-libs. That is an indication of how much an actor has developed a character. I believe this is much more than 'mimicking'.
This sounds like it is just a portrayal of a real person. I can buy that it is a better performance than Jones's if you like, but he definitely shouldn't have won the Oscar. He also seems like an utter twat. |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 10:14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by wildhartlivie
What is more important statistically in arriving at an average is how large the voting pool is. Capote has over 15000 votes and a 7.8 weighted average, while Infamous has 503 and a 7.3 weighted average. That's likely to be a statistically significant difference. The larger the pool, the more likely it is that the average is an accurate figure.
I agree. I've noticed that scores for new movies tend to drop with time. I'm guessing that this is because those who know they'll like a movie see it and score it first.
Statistical Analysis 621 - Gods, I hated it. But ya know, psychologists are supposed to understand it, as good old David Letterman continues to mock when he says "We Hoosiers love the 'satistics'."
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 17:02:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
That's why it is not just a portrayal of a real person and is good acting. Hoffman creates the character from the situation in the film. There are scenes where he ad-libs. That is an indication of how much an actor has developed a character. I believe this is much more than 'mimicking'.
This sounds like it is just a portrayal of a real person. I can buy that it is a better performance than Jones's if you like, but he definitely shouldn't have won the Oscar. He also seems like an utter twat.
That's such a stupid thing to write! Not only have you refused to watch the film because you've seen a few clips you didn't like of Hoffman's performance but now you're making judgements on his character. Personally I've not met the man, have you? Let's be absolutely clear here that there's not a personal bias at work - could it be you won't watch Capote and hate Hoffman only because he beat Heath Ledger to the Oscar in a film you obviously feel very connected to? Why not watch Capote and then have a reasoned response as to the quality of his performance compared to Ledger and Jones? Personally I think he shits all over them both as an actor, and in a very strong line up actually was the most deserving winner on the night. |
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 17:14:51
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As for Oscar robbing - 1993 really sticks in my gullet.
Tom Hanks winning for "Philadelphia" over Liam Neeson's performance as Oskar Schindler, as well as Daniel Day Lewis' Gerry Conlon and Hopkins in "Remains of the Day" still pisses me off.
And in the same year Tommy Lee Jones for "The Fugitive" over Ralph Fiennes? What a joke.
Oh, and while we're at it Anna Paquin for "The Piano"? Not really the strongest contended catagory that year, but better than Emma Hopkins in "In the Name of the Father"?
And then Hanks does it again in 1994 beating Nigel Hawthorne and Morgan Freeman, with "Forrest Gump". As you can probably tell, I don't much rate Tom Hanks. In fact his best acting performance is probably in "Big".
I can't stand Gump; that film puts my teeth on edge - give me Pulp Fiction, Quiz Show or Shawshank over it for Best Picture any day. Stupid academy!   |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 17:19:19
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quote:
Originally posted by demonic
Emma Hopkins in "In the Name of the Father"?
Uhm ... I'm guessing you mean Emma Thompson? [I agree, a wonderfully moving performance! But the subject matter prob'ly ensured no statuette  ]
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 23:35:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
That's why it is not just a portrayal of a real person and is good acting. Hoffman creates the character from the situation in the film. There are scenes where he ad-libs. That is an indication of how much an actor has developed a character. I believe this is much more than 'mimicking'.
This sounds like it is just a portrayal of a real person. I can buy that it is a better performance than Jones's if you like, but he definitely shouldn't have won the Oscar. He also seems like an utter twat.
You used the phrase copying a real person, that's what I was addressing. Hoffman does more than copy, he takes on the character just in the same way as for a fictional character. Anyway, I'm going to shut up now, since I didn't see the Jones peformance!! And to be honest, I don't really care about Hoffman vs Ledger, so please don't take offense! I'm just thinking about the general issue of 'portraying' real people in movies versus creating a fictional character.  |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 23:47:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
Hoffman does more than copy, he takes on the character just in the same way as for a fictional character.
That's the same as far as I'm concerned. Sure, an actor would have to let the real character take over, but that real character is already fully established. It's a level above to create a character that is just as believable. |
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Downtown 
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 01/26/2007 : 23:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
Although I love both films, I think its safe to say that history has proven that the Academy voters made a big mistake during the 1991 Academy Awards by choosing Dances with Wolves over Goodfellas for Best Picture, Best Director, and Best Adapted Screenplay. Martin Scorsese famously never won an Oscar in his life and Goodfellas was, arguably, the most complex and sensative film of his long, influential career.
Well duh, he's never going to win. It should be obvious by now. When he's old and gray they'll give him a Lifetime Achievement Award as a "sorry for screwing you all those years" gesture, but they'll never let him hold Oscar in his hands.
But I still think Goodfellas was too long. |
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demonic
"Cinemaniac"
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Posted - 01/27/2007 : 02:30:28
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
quote:
Originally posted by demonic
Emma Hopkins in "In the Name of the Father"?
Uhm ... I'm guessing you mean Emma Thompson? [I agree, a wonderfully moving performance! But the subject matter prob'ly ensured no statuette ]
Ahem! *Snort* *Splutter* Where am I again? 
Actually that whole Paquin debacle came to mind with the nomination of the Abigail Breslin for "Little Miss Sunshine". Now, really good film and all that, and a lovely performance, but... please. |
Edited by - demonic on 01/27/2007 02:34:18 |
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Montgomery
"F**k!"
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Posted - 01/27/2007 : 04:02:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by Montgomery
I can't agree with you there, Salop.
Don't call me 'Salop'.
I'm sorry. I thought people had shortened your fwfr name that way before.  I will use the full Salopian from now on. No offense intended.
EM :) |
Edited by - Montgomery on 01/27/2007 04:03:07 |
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Topic |
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Oscar Winners who shouldn't have.
