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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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 Posted - 03/13/2007 : 01:59:52
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I hope it may be some comfort that everyone here values and respects you. 
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Tori 
"I don't get it...."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 02:11:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
I hope it may be some comfort that everyone here values and respects you.
It does. :) When the attack went public at my school I lost anyone I could previously count as a friend. The abuse of my classmates got so bad that I homeschooled myself afterwards. As an adult, I still don't have many friends so you guys mean a lot to me. :)
Now, back to the original subject...myspace! ;) |
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duh 
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 02:14:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Tori
I always thought I'd never forget or forgive but I'm slowly starting to do both. Details are leaving me and sometimes I can't even remember how many guys actually assaulted me and how many were just standing by watching. I'm thankful that I no longer remember every detail. I think that came with the forgiveness and if I could help someone else forget a lot and forgive a little, I'd be happy. :)
You're a far far better human being than I would be.
(I haven't even forgiven the classmates who merely made fun of me...and I'm 52 now.)
A few weeks ago, I was tickled to see a photo on the net of an old boyfriend's wife...whew boy, he got what he deserved!  |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 03:49:55
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Just because this happened at school doesn't mean they aren't criminals. I hope they got what was coming to them from the law.
There was a case in NZ a couple of years ago where a bunch of boys assaulted another boy. They used a broom handle. You use your imagination. Anyway, they were prosecuted and went to prison for 18 months or so.
As you can see I'm inclined to be a little less forgiving, particularly when it comes to evil things like sexual assault. In the absence of repentance from the evildoers I'd be more inclined to drag out the old testament to justify my vengeance than use the new testament.
I see repentance as a pre-requisite for forgiveness. If someone isn't sorry, how can they deserve forgiveness? (Perhaps they are sorry, in which case forgiveness is totally admirable, and the right approach IMO.) |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 04:47:23
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Tori,
Strength of soul is what gets us through everything. When I was counseling, I used to work with people in trying to overcome trauma. What I know about it, from both professional and personal experience, is that we grow from it and eventually, it becomes like a bad dream. We move on and are better people for it. Strength be with you.
Oh, and I put through an add a friend to you and mampers. Anyone else is welcome as well.
www.myspace.com/wildhartlivie (well, what did you THINK it would be?) |
Edited by - w22dheartlivie on 03/13/2007 04:47:43 |
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Tori
"I don't get it...."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 21:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
Just because this happened at school doesn't mean they aren't criminals. I hope they got what was coming to them from the law.
There was a case in NZ a couple of years ago where a bunch of boys assaulted another boy. They used a broom handle. You use your imagination. Anyway, they were prosecuted and went to prison for 18 months or so.
As you can see I'm inclined to be a little less forgiving, particularly when it comes to evil things like sexual assault. In the absence of repentance from the evildoers I'd be more inclined to drag out the old testament to justify my vengeance than use the new testament.
I see repentance as a pre-requisite for forgiveness. If someone isn't sorry, how can they deserve forgiveness? (Perhaps they are sorry, in which case forgiveness is totally admirable, and the right approach IMO.)
I know that what they did was criminal. After suffering much abuse from my classmates and some teachers even, the D.A. came to my school and held an assembly (which just made things worse) and made it clear that several of the boys were old enough and the crime was serious enough for prison. But my Mom decided not to press charges because she didn't think I would do well in a trial and because it would probably ruin their lives. (I might not have been able to handle a trial, I agree). Part of me wishes we had pressed charges but it's in the past. They said they were sorry and I don't know if they meant it or not but they said it. I mean, if they had gone to prison, what happened to me would have just happened to them probably and their lives would have been ruined. Better one life ruined (which it ended up not being after several years) than 7 or more. |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/13/2007 : 23:30:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Tori
Better one life ruined (which it ended up not being after several years) than 7 or more.
I suppose you're right. Perhaps "eye for an eye" vengeance could only end in more destruction. 
I suppose the best thing that could happen now (other than you dealing with it and putting it behind you - which you seem to be doing remarkably well  ) is that one day these guys realise the serious favour that you did them by not pressing charges. Then they'll let you know how grateful they are for the favour you did them. They certainly should be grateful. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 06:06:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Tori
Better one life ruined (which it ended up not being after several years) than 7 or more.
I suppose you're right. Perhaps "eye for an eye" vengeance could only end in more destruction.
I suppose the best thing that could happen now (other than you dealing with it and putting it behind you - which you seem to be doing remarkably well ) is that one day these guys realise the serious favour that you did them by not pressing charges. Then they'll let you know how grateful they are for the favour you did them. They certainly should be grateful.
I can think of only one way for them to show their gratitude - that would be for them to never, ever do anything even remotely like that again for the rest of their lives. The only way to assure that is for them to get psychological help, which would also be a way to show they are sorry for what they did.
But that's just me.
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 09:49:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
I see repentance as a pre-requisite for forgiveness. If someone isn't sorry, how can they deserve forgiveness? (Perhaps they are sorry, in which case forgiveness is totally admirable, and the right approach IMO.)
They may not deserve forgiveness but the act of forgiveness is also beneficial for the forgiver as well. If forgiveness is reliant on the contrition of the perpetrator then in many cases the wronged person would be locked into a corrosive cycle of hate and revenge.
I've never been in as damaging a situation as Tori but was on the receiving end of some nasty bullying in a red-neck town as a Year 9 student. I enjoyed the looks of astonishment when I returned to the 20 year reunion. People can change and it was a great relief to see that the faces I remembered as 14 year old bullies belonged to adults who regretted their actions.
It has also given me a greater appreciation for bullied and alienated kids in the school in which I teach.
As David Meece says "Out of your misery comes your ministry." |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 10:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
I see repentance as a pre-requisite for forgiveness. If someone isn't sorry, how can they deserve forgiveness? (Perhaps they are sorry, in which case forgiveness is totally admirable, and the right approach IMO.)
They may not deserve forgiveness but the act of forgiveness is also beneficial for the forgiver as well. If forgiveness is reliant on the contrition of the perpetrator then in many cases the wronged person would be locked into a corrosive cycle of hate and revenge.
I'd say you're right. If the perpetrator is an arsehole who doesn't care about what they did then there's no point being bitter for ever. Although "moving on and trying to forget about it" and "forgiving" aren't necessarily that different. I suspect I'd apply the former to those who were unrepentant, and probably save forgiveness for those who really deserved it (i.e., the repentant), but that's just me. Easy for me to say though, as I've never felt the need to bear a grudge or forgive anyone for anything (nothing that I remember anyway). And if I did remember anything it would pale into nothingness compared to sexual assault.quote:
I've never been in as damaging a situation as Tori but was on the receiving end of some nasty bullying in a red-neck town as a Year 9 student. I enjoyed the looks of astonishment when I returned to the 20 year reunion. People can change and it was a great relief to see that the faces I remembered as 14 year old bullies belonged to adults who regretted their actions.
They were probably arseholes like me.  I remember making life somewhat unpleasant for certain pupils and certain teachers when I was about 14 (nothing too serious though, I don't think), but I sure was repentant a bit later on.  14-year olds can be such arseholes, I recall most of our class laughing when a relieving teacher left the room crying because we'd made her life so miserable.  quote:
It has also given me a greater appreciation for bullied and alienated kids in the school in which I teach.
As David Meece says "Out of your misery comes your ministry."
And what doesn't destroy you makes you stronger. |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 11:04:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
And what doesn't destroy you makes you stronger.
True enough... unless it leaves you in a vegetative state.  |
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Beanmimo 
"August review site"
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 11:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Tori
Sorry if that is TMI. I have a bad habit of speaking first and thinking second.
Tori, I notice that you could have deleted your previous post but you left it on.
I'm not sure that everybody on the site would be as revealing as that.
I admire your honesty.
I didn't know if I was going to reply at all!
When i hear a horrible experience like yours a little part of the man in me dies and that part was the minute connection that i shared with the ignorant males who did this to you.
Yourspace (your myspace!) proves that you took account of yourself and moved on, that's admirable too.
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Tori
"I don't get it...."
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 17:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
quote:
Originally posted by Tori
Sorry if that is TMI. I have a bad habit of speaking first and thinking second.
Tori, I notice that you could have deleted your previous post but you left it on.
I'm not sure that everybody on the site would be as revealing as that.
I admire your honesty.
I didn't know if I was going to reply at all!
When i hear a horrible experience like yours a little part of the man in me dies and that part was the minute connection that i shared with the ignorant males who did this to you.
Yourspace (your myspace!) proves that you took account of yourself and moved on, that's admirable too.
I thought about deleting it but I really do want someone to benefit someday from my story and if I never tell it that can never happen. I added the second post sort of as a 'sorry' for anyone who wished they hadn't read it. I certainly didn't plan on sharing here because to me this is a carefree, fun site and I hate to think I brought the mood down. |
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Beanmimo
"August review site"
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Posted - 03/14/2007 : 17:25:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Tori
I thought about deleting it but I really do want someone to benefit someday from my story and if I never tell it that can never happen. I added the second post sort of as a 'sorry' for anyone who wished they hadn't read it. I certainly didn't plan on sharing here because to me this is a carefree, fun site and I hate to think I brought the mood down.
Funny you should say that, i sort of wished i hadn't read it and then almost instantly felt compelled to reply.
Do not regret it, as you can see some people here have used it to discuss some past actions that have hurt people.
There are alot of other serious threads (though none quite like your topic) on the site all brought up by ourselves (who make the site possible)
The fact that you chose to share it with us says more about the validity of the views expressed here and more about your attitude to the expanding fwfr spirit than any review we may have written about us.
Oops I do meander sometimes!!
Anyway, thanks for your honesty. |
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I think we've done this before, but oh well.
