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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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 Posted - 09/01/2008 : 23:20:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
Surely the rate of abortion in western society is too high.
I agree. Abortion is a common substitute for sex education (or a cure for lack of it). Anti-abortion sentiment is commonly associated with anti-sex-education-for-teens sentiment. BTW Conan, I'm not suggesting for a second that that includes you, as I don't recall you ever commenting on it.
I wonder if Palin's pregnant unmarried 17-year-old daughter had a decent level of sex education and access to contraception? |
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w22dheartlivie 
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 09/01/2008 : 23:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
quote:
Originally posted by wildheartlivie
I think Palin is a most unfortunate choice. I question the family values of a woman who would be glad to leave an infant with Downs syndrome at home while she goes trekking across the country to pursue her own dreams. I abhor the thought of the skeletons in her closet, some of which are coming out. It's one thing to be identified as a religious conservative, it's quite another to see the fallout from that traipsing across the White House lawn. Harsh? Perhaps. Then again, I listened to an audio recording of her laughing as a radio dj made fun of one of her political opponents in Alaska. To quote Mammy in Gone with the Wind, "It ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin'."
Then don't vote for her. 
Heh. I wasn't going to vote for McCain prior to this choice. He's not changed my mind! |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 09/01/2008 : 23:36:52
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quote:
Originally posted by wildheartlivie
As she's stated, Palin is against abortion, even for her fourteen year old daughter.
On another issue, I think it shows really bad judgment and insensitivity on Palin's part to talk in terms of her position should her daughter be raped. How exactly is this statement likely to affect her 14 yr old daughter? Not particularly well I imagine.
Why did the example have to be personalized?
The only point I can think of is to demonstrate Palin's moral rectitude. "I will stick to my principles even if it were my own daughter!" - which is actually an easy thing to say if it hasn't in fact happened. The rest of us have the very dubious pleasure of visualizing her raped and bleeding daughter suffering for her mother's principles.
And I think we are supposed to say "How brave the mother is!"
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 00:05:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
Surely the rate of abortion in western society is too high.
I agree. Abortion is a common substitute for sex education (or a cure for lack of it). Anti-abortion sentiment is commonly associated with anti-sex-education-for-teens sentiment. BTW Conan, I'm not suggesting for a second that that includes you, as I don't recall you ever commenting on it.
I wonder if Palin's pregnant unmarried 17-year-old daughter had a decent level of sex education and access to contraception?
In fact, I agree with both these statements. The rate of abortion is too high and I'm opposed to abortion as a conception remedy. The problem is, the moral right tends to object to sex education that includes information about contraception. It's been parodied to a point in films and on TV, but honestly, how do you teach about pregnancy prevention while not mentioning condoms and birth control methods? 1.131 billion Catholics tends to indicate that the rhythm method is faulty. (No offense meant to the Catholics among us.)
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Edited by - w22dheartlivie on 09/02/2008 00:09:57 |
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MM0rkeleb 
"Better than HBO."
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 02:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by wildheartlivie
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
Surely the rate of abortion in western society is too high.
I agree. Abortion is a common substitute for sex education (or a cure for lack of it). Anti-abortion sentiment is commonly associated with anti-sex-education-for-teens sentiment. BTW Conan, I'm not suggesting for a second that that includes you, as I don't recall you ever commenting on it.
I wonder if Palin's pregnant unmarried 17-year-old daughter had a decent level of sex education and access to contraception?
In fact, I agree with both these statements. The rate of abortion is too high and I'm opposed to abortion as a conception remedy. The problem is, the moral right tends to object to sex education that includes information about contraception. It's been parodied to a point in films and on TV, but honestly, how do you teach about pregnancy prevention while not mentioning condoms and birth control methods? 1.131 billion Catholics tends to indicate that the rhythm method is faulty. (No offense meant to the Catholics among us.)
Well, at least you put a 'no offense' on there, but ...
Please don't talk about the rhythm method. Nowadays, the Church advocates natural family planning, which is significantly more sophisticated and effective (done properly as effective as oral contraceptives). At least, for married persons. For the unmarried, the method of choice is still abstinence, which is the only method that is 100% effective when done properly.
Granted, I do think teens should be educated on other methods of birth control, because sadly, a large percentage of those who pledge abstinence before marriage don't make it, and when they have sex are far less likely to use birth control.
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Edited by - MM0rkeleb on 09/02/2008 02:38:48 |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 02:48:58
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I apologize, MM0rkeleb. It was really not meant to be offensive and was a bit too flip. You made the point I was making much better. The issue is more frequently a problem with unmarried teens, which is the crux of the point I was trying badly to make. Schools in my area teach stilted and awkward sex education, are not allowed to discuss pregnancy prevention beyond abstinence, which, as you note, isn't much effective in the heat of the teenage moment. They teach the anatomy of it and not to do it, and aren't allowed to answer the nitty gritty questions that even less savvy teens have. My goddaughter's son is in 5th grade now. In 5th grade, they see "the film" and then later are introduced to D.A.R.E. Both are presented with a "and don't be doing this!!" message. He'll be 11 soon and he questions the rationale of teaching them that something exists, telling them not to do it and not offering anything beyond that.
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MM0rkeleb
"Better than HBO."
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 05:00:43
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Apology accepted, livie. No hard feelings. 
Larger point being, yeah, sex ed needs fixing. Though I do think any reasonable program should encourage abstinence as the first choice - not only is it the most effective, but the other ones I'd class as very effective (pill, NFP) need a lot of prior planning. But due to the difficulty of abstinence, alternatives need to be discussed as well. |
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duh 
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 05:59:13
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OK, so now it has been revealed that Palin's 17 year old daughter is doing a Jamie Lynn Spears.
I give up. We're fucked.
There is no hope for a Republican ticket that has as its nominee, someone who is dumb enough to have selected such an obvious hypocrite for his Veep. Sorry, Mr McCain, I am grateful for your service to the country, and I thought you were a hoot on SNL, but you figuratively shot yourself in the foot.
----
What is so hard about teaching teenage girls not to let themselves become pregnant? I don't understand.
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 07:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by duh Improper Username
Sorry, Mr McCain, I am grateful for your service to the country, and I thought you were a hoot on SNL, but you figuratively shot yourself in the foot.
I'm wondering if the McCain camp perhaps didn't know about the Spears Syndrome? In which case Sarah has been very naughty. Or that they did know about it and were hoping it would be kept under wraps for a couple of months, in which case they're very naive. Or perhaps they think it won't have an adverse effect on voters?
A woman who has a kid at 44 (where everyone knows the risk of Down's Syndrome is pretty high), and is unable to teach her kids to avoid becoming unplanned teen mothers isn't exactly the kind of person I'd think would be good Presidential material. General all-round competence would seem to be a useful trait.  That doesn't of course mean that millions of voters won't say "Yes please, she'll do!" though.
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Edited by - Sean on 09/02/2008 07:13:36 |
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w22dheartlivie
"Kitty Lover"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 07:24:20
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| Well, the Spears are from Louisiana. I wonder how many electoral votes are available from there... |
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rockfsh
"Laugh, Love, Cheer"
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 08:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by MM0rkeleb
[quote For the unmarried, the method of choice is still abstinence, which is the only method that is 100% effective when done properly.
Of course oral sex never made anyone pregnant, but I have a feeling they don't advocate that in the schools and churches.
Shame - 'cause it's so nice, when done properly -- as I remember 
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Edited by - BaftaBaby on 09/02/2008 08:04:02 |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 08:25:50
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quote:
Originally posted by wildheartlivie
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Westy
Then don't vote for her.
Heh. I wasn't going to vote for McCain prior to this choice. He's not changed my mind!
I won't for vote McCain either. |
Edited by - Conan The Westy on 09/02/2008 08:26:22 |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 08:30:02
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quote:
Originally posted by duh Improper Username
What is so hard about teaching teenage girls not to let themselves become pregnant? I don't understand.
See, this is where the problem really is with this ticket. Palin wants to illegalize abortion, and McCain wants to elimnate government funding for sex education.
Talk about your recipe for making Hollywood mirror real life! |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 09/02/2008 : 09:32:31
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| I want to make it very clear that I have no fights with pro-life people. If they believe that women shouldn't have abortions, they are free to do so and do what they want to convince pregnant woman not to abort, as there is nothing illegal about that whatsoever, nor should it be. I think therefore that they should allow pro-choicers the same courtesy not make it illegal for a pregnant woman to have an abortion, if she choses to do so, for whatever reason. |
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Hillary Clinton.
