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Sal[Au]pian 
"Four ever European"
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 Posted - 04/09/2008 : 16:43:25
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| And on that note, I have been meaning to mention the tourism adverts that one often sees at the cinema. In ascending order of awfulness (but all well within the awful category), they are Scotland, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia. I literally have to close my eyes and block my ears when the Australian one is on, it's so cringeworthy. I would be highly surprised if any Australian could watch it and feel justly served. Is there an England one of these? I dread to imagine it if so. |
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BaftaBaby 
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 16:49:11
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Salopian touches on a relevant factor:
Don't hold me to exact percentages, but I believe it's 4% of Americans who hold valid passports.
Hmmm ... I had a strange feeling this topic might attract some interest 
Though, I understand for others it's just ... 
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 16:50:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
You've picked out a good one, B.B. For some reason, it's just so, so irritating.
Understood, just as when some persons say "pacifically" when they mean "specifically." With my daughter (who does not do that, God forbid) and with close friends and relations, I will humbly correct an incorrect habit, for fear that they do not repeat it in the company of someone equally irritated and vocal but less polite. However, with others, I am more circumspect, since I am able to understand their intent, and I do not desire to offend.
But that's for something patently incorrect.
As you have aptly noted, the present topic involves potential overinformation or underinformation and, (as I see it) more importantly the conclusion that the information is either over or under inclusive by a given perceiver.
That it may be irritating is no sin for the perceiver: hey, we likes what we likes and don't whats we don't. The side topic I had raised, however, was the choice to make public commentary or to signal disapprobation based on what is essentially an assumption that the information giver intends some affront or that the perceiver feels compelled to dispel any notion that s/he was not possessed of the information in the first place.
If, having some sense that I have at least a tenth-grade education, you inform me that two plus two is four, it's pretty obvious that you intend an affront, and you're going to deserve what you get in return. But if you tell me that the sin of 5 is 0.0871557, and you don't know whether I knew that, it's a bit presumptious of me to treat you in a condescending way to signal that I already knew that.
My point -- which I recognize without insult to you Sal that you were not intending to address, but which I raise again because I love controversy -- is not that it's not irritating. I'm sure it is. I just raise the question of whether certain responses to that irritation are appropriate or justified. |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 16:57:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
To us, Americans (e.g. in the audience of television shows) seem overenthusiastic and fake (whooping away at the most fractionally funny lines) ...
Ummm ... that's a laughtrack. Most of we Americans find that kind of audience laughter overenthusiastic and fake as well. But that's because we know it's a laughtrack. You know it's a laughtrack, don't you?
quote:
, whereas to Americans we come across as cold, reserved and underenthusiastic/unsupportive. This of course is only a case of the peak numbers of people being at a slightly different point on the effusiveness spectrum, but it's sufficiently noticeable as a trend that it marks out a national distinction.
I've been with a peak number of British women, and believe you me, sonny jim, I find them very enthusiastic and supportive.  |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 16:59:29
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Yep, I would never comment on this usage to anyone who exhibited it. But then I would from time to time mention it to other British people (not with regard to specific cases), so perhaps that's just as snide, just less direct?  One needs to get things off one's chest, though.
When I was on Palace Green in Durham (City) once, a tourist asked me where the Cathedral was. I'm not sure what they thought the absolutely masssive church-shaped building on the other side of the grass was... |
Edited by - Sal[Au]pian on 04/09/2008 17:00:12 |
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:00:24
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I was born in Virginia but moved to Mississippi when I was twelve, at which point I noticed a strange cultural tic that would make you nod your head in agreement if you had ever lived there. When asked their hometown, native Mississippians of my generation and previous tend to provide the state name as well: "I'm from Corinth Missippy." [Three syllables.] Even when standing upon Mississippi soil. It isn't so in Georgia, Alabama or Louisiana, and certainly not in Virginia. Odd, huh?
But even down South [where people are supposedly "dumb"], I've rarely if ever heard the state name used when referring to New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Houston, Memphis, Boston, etc etc etc, not to mention London, Paris, Rome or Moscow.
And yes, it's true: many Brits are snobs. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
To us, Americans (e.g. in the audience of television shows) seem overenthusiastic and fake (whooping away at the most fractionally funny lines) ...
Ummm ... that's a laughtrack. Most of we Americans find that kind of audience laughter overenthusiastic and fake as well. But that's because we know it's a laughtrack. You know it's a laughtrack, don't you?
No, I mean when you can see the audience, e.g. on many talk shows (chat shows to us). They are virtually rolling all over the aisles.
It doesn't just have to be laughter. There's all that "Go Ricki! Go Ricki!" stuff as well. |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:05:52
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Talking of specific geographical variants (in response to Randall's example), has anyone else noticed that people from Oxfordshire say postcodes differently? While most people would say "O-X-fifteen...", they tend to say "O-X-one-five..."
And even more specifically, Koli (if you read this), do you pronounce a G after the NG sound in all cases of -ing, i.e. such that finger rhymes with singer? I do this and it's apparently a Shropshire thing (as well as having a 'northern' A in combination a 'southern' U), which I was quite proud to discover. For a long time, I didn't realise that not everyone did it. |
Edited by - Sal[Au]pian on 04/09/2008 17:11:22 |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:09:00
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Come to think of it, I remember that I was so comfortable in English speaking countries to say that I am from "L.A." and nearly always getting the rejoinder "Where's that?"
Damned if you do and ...  |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
To us, Americans (e.g. in the audience of television shows) seem overenthusiastic and fake (whooping away at the most fractionally funny lines) ...
Ummm ... that's a laughtrack. Most of we Americans find that kind of audience laughter overenthusiastic and fake as well. But that's because we know it's a laughtrack. You know it's a laughtrack, don't you?
No, I mean when you can see the audience, e.g. on many talk shows (chat shows to us). They are virtually rolling all over the aisles.
Oh, those people. They are overenthusiastic and fake, and we make fun of them too.quote:
It doesn't just have to be laughter. There's all that "Go Ricki! Go Ricki!" stuff as well.
Are you implying that Ricki should not "go"? My God, man: what kind of people are you?  |
Edited by - MguyXXVI on 04/09/2008 17:13:02 |
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Sal[Au]pian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:14:03
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quote:
Originally posted by MguyX
Come to think of it, I remember that I was so comfortable in English speaking countries to say that I am from "L.A." and nearly always getting the rejoinder "Where's that?"
You jest, surely? I can imagine people not knowing it was in California, but I'd be very surprised if as many as 5% of British people didn't at least know that it was in that state. |
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BaftaBaby
"Always entranced by cinema."
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:17:22
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See, I'm not so sure we're talking about snobbery per se ... maybe a subset?
I just don't believe the majority of Americans know [or probably care] the way they're regarded by most Brits and many European continentals.
Now, I realize as the decades roll on since the "Ugly Americans" of the 1950s that Euros are trying to hang on to a sense of dominion over a once-conquered world and that is expressed against "the kid" i.e. America. Convinced they're right, adorably eager to please, arrogant, ignorant, unable to be sure when someone's "taking the mickey" ... oh, a whole host of possibilities for confusion.
And, in the UK, it's so much more complex because of the class system. Yes it IS still here and still affects how British people regard each other. I've seen it winnowed during my 40 years here - undoubtedly due to media imports and a succession of younger generations unwilling to put up with that shit.
But incoming Americans, even those who only get to see this culture reflected on various screens or book pages -- well, there's no real acknowledgement it exists nevermind how it might be influencing things.
That's partly because it transcends money. To be a member of the aristocracy is not a buyable status. There is really no equivalence between The Upper Class and celebrity, though you wouldn't think so to see the way Posh and Bex are depicted in US mags, etc.
i hope against hope for One World. For people first of all to understand our commonality before celebrating our uniqueness.
It's practically maths! And as MguyX has [inadvertantly] remarked -- advanced maths is a "sin" 
Gotta go prepare for my supper guest. Nice food, game of Scrabble. Who'd a thought?!
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randall
"I like to watch."
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 17:20:07
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I've been in the Letterman, Jon Stewart, and Colbert audiences at various times, and we're definitely primed to get loud as we can for the folks at home, but in each case I was genuinely thrilled to be there as well. So it's part artifice and part genuine.
Meanwhile, I hope to God it was a canned laugh-track I heard screaming at THE YOUNG ONES, or whatever that pathetic piece of tripe is actually called. |
Edited by - randall on 04/09/2008 17:22:02 |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 18:16:06
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Then again, we can't really compare Ricki Lake to Letterman, Stewart and Colbert.  |
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MguyXXVI
"X marks the spot"
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Posted - 04/09/2008 : 18:56:24
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quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
It's practically maths! And as MguyX has [inadvertantly] remarked -- advanced maths is a "sin"
HA! I gotcha! "Every" self-respecting mathematician knows that the mathematical expression of the "sine" [vulgar] concept is "sin," with the vowel being long. See example here. Indeed, even the OED makes reference to it.
Hence, my dear, there was nothing inadvertent at all [said very smugly as I gaze down my e-nose at you]. But I should expect that you would have known that.
Sorry, I couldn't help that. The tone is meant purely in jest. But the information is correct! [Silly teasing e-dance ensues.] |
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Ramble ramble
